indie shop put Mobil 10W-30 in my car. thoughts?

[webster]

so last week i got my oil changed at my trusted local indie shop. they've always provided great service. but after the last visit, i noticed my receipt said Mobil 1 10W-30 was used. I sent them the following message and got the subsequent response. What do you guys think? worth making a stink about?


I am just back in the office today to follow up on this. I have done plenty of research and know 100% for a fact that 10W30 is NOT an approved LL-01 oil to use. Please see below guidelines from BMW and note especially the last point in bold:

· The BMW Synthetic 5W-30 is a version of Castrol TXT Softect sold overseas. It is a Group III hydro-cracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, is a heavy 30 weight oil, and is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals.

· In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are Mobil-1, Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500), Royal Purple, and German Castrol 0W-30 (it has the red label and says on the back, "Made in Germany). Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. All other Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline "synthetics" are Group III hydro-cracked oil. There is a significant amount of debated over how much better Group IV base oils are than Group III, but generally they are considered better.

· When looking for oil for any BMW that does not require Castrol TWS 10W-60, find oil that has either/both of the following ratings ACEA A-3 and BMW LL-98/LL-01.

· Mobil-1 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 are NOT ACEA A3 or BMW LL approved oils. This is because they all are thin 30 weight oils. Mobil-1 0W-40 and 15W-50 are ACEA A-3 rated and the OW-40 is BMW LL-01 approved. For 99% of climates and drivers 0W-40 will work great (This is what I used to use). Look for the ACEA A-3 rating, if the oil doesn't have it keep looking.


I know for a fact that when I have personally sat through an oil change that I confirmed the BMW 5W30 was used in the past. I did however look at the invoice from the work I had done in October 2013 and see that 10W30 was used there as well; I guess I just didn’t catch it.



Please let me know your thoughts. Not trying to be unreasonable about this, but obviously having the correct oil in my car is a major priority. Thanks for your cooperation.

response:



Hi Wesley,



For years and years we have used oils and some other fluids from time to time that goes away from what BMW says. We use 10W30 for that engine, period. We will use whatever a customer asks us too however, we usually use the 10W30.

We do this for several reasons I guess but, with our climate – this is what is recommended. We arrived at this years ago when we started sending oil samples to the lab and over time, the results showed a more favorable wear with this oil, in this climate.

I use 10W30 in my own car, we always have, and we do this type of thing for all cars here. We do not always agree with BMW, much like most independent shops.

We also don’t change the oil at the longer mileage time period as BMW has people do. We do it every 5k. There is so much information and debate about this on the internet, people could argue in a room endlessly. That said, we do it this way for those reasons. If you want us to use something different, that is ok too. Heck, for some customers with this engine we use 20W50 if they have high oil consumption.

Many oils can be used for many reasons in most engines.

Take care-


John Blevins

Director of Customer Service

Bavarian Machine Specialties

[derbo]

If they truly believe with oil samples analysis that 10W-30 is the oil of choice, I don't see any issues with that! If anything you can just change out your oil at 5k and call it a day.

[wsmeyer]

I was planning on going 10-30 at my next change. There's a chart in TIS and 0-40 is the default recommended for all temp ranges but for where I live 10-30 is fine and I'm in the camp of thicker is better long term. Unless someone gets to it first I'll take a screen shot of the chart later this evening after the Kings win.

[derbo]

The oil is thinner at 30 wt vs 40?

[ELCID86]

If they truly believe with oil samples analysis that 10W-30 is the oil of choice, I don't see any issues with that! If anything you can just change out your oil at 5k and call it a day.

+1

[Tnhl1989]

Yeah I have a independent shop here that was telling me I could run 5w30 which would be fine as well since I am on the higher mileage. Really good reputation shop around the area with the latest equipment straight from Germany. http://zbylut.com/

The owner is a great guy and came into my dealership to test drive the m235. Overall he was impress by the car as his friend who wanted a m235 couldn't wait and ended up getting a TT which he kinda regretting after the drive.

[wsmeyer]

The oil is thinner at 30 wt vs 40?

No the higher the number the thicker. They are all rated at a specific starting temp because they all thin out as they heat up. In multi weight oil the second number is its thickness at 100 C. You want an oil to be thin at startup so the oil pump can generate sufficient pressure to properly lubricate. But it's all relative to the starting temp.

[onepercent]

Frankly I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just be specific next time you have it changed, or better yet DIY.

[mimalmo]

BMW approved oil or forget it.

I have a hard time believing that a local guy, even an extremely competent guy has even a fraction of the engineering experience, test equipment, data analysis, etc, etc as the BMW factory guys in Germany to make a decision that goes against what we already know.

[az3579]

BMW approved oil or forget it.

I have a hard time believing that a local guy, even an extremely competent guy has even a fraction of the engineering experience, test equipment, data analysis, etc, etc as the BMW factory guys in Germany to make a decision that goes against what we already know.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter which oil you use, as long as you use the proper weight for your climate and driving conditions, the engines will look and operate identically at 200-300k miles.

There is absolutely NOTHING you have to worry about regarding them switching to this oil, Wes.


The BMW LL-01 spec only exists so you know which oil is approved for BMWs extended oil service schedule. If you change your oil more frequently than that, following the LL-01 spec is unnecessary.

[wsmeyer]

BMW approved oil or forget it.

I have a hard time believing that a local guy, even an extremely competent guy has even a fraction of the engineering experience, test equipment, data analysis, etc, etc as the BMW factory guys in Germany to make a decision that goes against what we already know.

The BMW documentation doesn't recommend a specific weight, it's a chart.

[mimalmo]

I never said it did.

There's a list of approved oils. There's a reason those oils made the list and others didn't.

[derbo]

No the higher the number the thicker. They are all rated at a specific starting temp because they all thin out as they heat up. In multi weight oil the second number is its thickness at 100 C. You want an oil to be thin at startup so the oil pump can generate sufficient pressure to properly lubricate. But it's all relative to the starting temp.

I wrote thinner not thicker :)

sent from Moto X Dev Edition

[mimalmo]

Ultimately, it doesn't matter which oil you use, as long as you use the proper weight for your climate and driving conditions, the engines will look and operate identically at 200-300k miles.

There is absolutely NOTHING you have to worry about regarding them switching to this oil, Wes.


The BMW LL-01 spec only exists so you know which oil is approved for BMWs extended oil service schedule. If you change your oil more frequently than that, following the LL-01 spec is unnecessary.


Disagree. There have been reports of lifter tick, sludge buildup, etc when using non-approved oils.

[Avetiso]

My car used OEM oil only up to 69.5k miles. When I popped the valve cover off, there was buildup everywhere. It was bad. VANOS was caked, too. They also followed the BMW OCI that was set by the same guys that engineered the oil.

Lifter tick happens when tracking all the time, so I don't think it's that big a deal, either.

[Hermes]

If your indie is using Mobil1 and changing it every 5k you are fine. If you're gonna run the 15k miles or whatever LL-01 is then no, get an approved oil

[NoVAphotog]

My car used OEM oil only up to 69.5k miles. When I popped the valve cover off, there was buildup everywhere. It was bad. VANOS was caked, too. They also followed the BMW OCI that was set by the same guys that engineered the oil.

Lifter tick happens when tracking all the time, so I don't think it's that big a deal, either.

I'm pretty sure mine has been using the BMW oil as well....and I just bought some from the dealer! I'll lookout for this buildup when I get in there to do the plugs.

[az3579]

Disagree. There have been reports of lifter tick, sludge buildup, etc when using non-approved oils.

See below.


My car used OEM oil only up to 69.5k miles. When I popped the valve cover off, there was buildup everywhere. It was bad. VANOS was caked, too. They also followed the BMW OCI that was set by the same guys that engineered the oil.

Lifter tick happens when tracking all the time, so I don't think it's that big a deal, either.

Dario's is a perfect example of the oil not being the culprit. There is an approved oil being used, yet still has sludge buildup. That sludge buildup may or may not be the cause of mileage driven on the oil, or other maintenance habits that attributed to this. Who knows what the history of the car was before he got it.

So, sludge, lifter tick, and whatever engine problems could easily be attributed to a number of other factors other than the type of engine oil used. Granted, you definitely have to make sure it's synthetic oil as that's what our engines are designed for, but other than these very few reports of miscellaneous oddities there are countless of cases of folks who don't use LL-01 approved oils that are just fine. Just ask anyone who uses a non-approved oil and has an engine that is fine *raises hand*. The ratio of folks that are fine greatly outweighs those who have problems when we talk about using non-approved oils. If this was a concern then this would be as widely known as failing window regulators or burnt ZKW bowls.

In the case of something like lifter tick - well, you've got to think about how the car is used. Does it get autocrossed? BMWs are notorious for lifter tick after an autox event. Did that owner perhaps run the engine without oil for a little too long? That's been known to happen as well.

In the end, your engine isn't going to magically give you all sorts of problems by switching to a different weight oil. The weight should be matched to the environment it's running in so as to get optimal protection, regardless of what BMW recommends.

Just as a side example, Mobil1 0W-40 is a LL-01 oil. Mobil1 is a very reputable brand that's been proven to produce oils that protect engines. So going to a 10W-30 from the same brand isn't reliable anymore just because it's not approved? That doesn't make sense to me.



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[mbeckel]

See below.



Dario's is a perfect example of the oil not being the culprit. There is an approved oil being used, yet still has sludge buildup. That sludge buildup may or may not be the cause of mileage driven on the oil, or other maintenance habits that attributed to this. Who knows what the history of the car was before he got it.

So, sludge, lifter tick, and whatever engine problems could easily be attributed to a number of other factors other than the type of engine oil used. Granted, you definitely have to make sure it's synthetic oil as that's what our engines are designed for, but other than these very few reports of miscellaneous oddities there are countless of cases of folks who don't use LL-01 approved oils that are just fine. Just ask anyone who uses a non-approved oil and has an engine that is fine *raises hand*. The ratio of folks that are fine greatly outweighs those who have problems when we talk about using non-approved oils. If this was a concern then this would be as widely known as failing window regulators or burnt ZKW bowls.

In the case of something like lifter tick - well, you've got to think about how the car is used. Does it get autocrossed? BMWs are notorious for lifter tick after an autox event. Did that owner perhaps run the engine without oil for a little too long? That's been known to happen as well.

In the end, your engine isn't going to magically give you all sorts of problems by switching to a different weight oil. The weight should be matched to the environment it's running in so as to get optimal protection, regardless of what BMW recommends.

Just as a side example, Mobil1 0W-40 is a LL-01 oil. Mobil1 is a very reputable brand that's been proven to produce oils that protect engines. So going to a 10W-30 from the same brand isn't reliable anymore just because it's not approved? That doesn't make sense to me.



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Wow! Well said buddy! Just say +1 isn't enough, I gotta go +10

Sent from in the bushes

[wsmeyer]

Here's the cart from the Technical Service Manual

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25621980/BMW-Oil-Chart.gif

[johnrando]

Nice chart William.

[mbeckel]

Ever since viewing this topic, I have been questioning my choice in oil. I used mobile one 0W 40. Changed every 5k. Good or bad?

Sent from in the bushes

[Avetiso]

Ever since viewing this topic, I have been questioning my choice in oil. I used mobile one 0W 40. Changed every 5k. Good or bad?

Sent from in the bushes

You are more than good.

"Arnold smoking a cigar in the Red Square; your argument is invalid." -Galaxy S5

[mbeckel]

You are more than good.

"Arnold smoking a cigar in the Red Square; your argument is invalid." -Galaxy S5

You left me wide open for that one (insert any line) hahaha Boom! :p

Sent from in the bushes