Wyatt's Subframe Repair and Reinforcement.

[wertyu78]

We are not immune to the infamous subframe issue that most E46's face. I thought I'd share the Repair and Reinforcement of the subframe mounting mounts on my ZHP. I knew this day would come. It wasn't a matter of if it would happen, but more a matter of when.

I normally have the help of Eurocentric with these big projects. Unfortunately they are backed up for weeks (which is great, I am thrilled that they are) and this is my only car. They will be building my High Comp S54 in a few years.

For this job I've reach out to the very talented Matt Gross and Justin Davenport. They are long time gear-heads and have each built some pretty gnarly cars. They are in the process of opening their own performance shop and agreed to fix my car out of their personal garage in their spare time. Keep an eye out for them. Matt's next personal project starts soon. I won't say much, but it involves a gutted E46 M3, a V8, and lots of boost.


They started after work this evening around 6:45pm.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_1.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_1.jpg.html)

Unbolting stuff....

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_2.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_2.jpg.html)

Subframe getting ready to be dropped out

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_3.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_3.jpg.html)

and it's out!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_4.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_4.jpg.html)

This setup worked beautifully to move the subframe around.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_6.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_6.jpg.html)

Subframe itself is cracking on the diff mount!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_7.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_7.jpg.html)

This is what we were greeted with.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_5.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_5.jpg.html)

Stripping the trunk out a bit

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_8.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_8.jpg.html)

Parts pile is still small

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_9.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_9.jpg.html)

Fuel tank has been dropped

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_10.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_10.jpg.html)

I asked Matt to quickly clean the area up around the crack so I could see just how bad it really was.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_12.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_12.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/14_11.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/14_11.jpg.html)

We all left the garage at 9:30 to grab some Chick-Fil-A and head home. I'll be over there tomorrow after work to watch them start prepping for the welding portion of this project.

[johnrando]

Great update/info.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[derbo]

Holy moly that crack is huge!

[Avetiso]

Holy moly that crack is huge!
+1

Wyatt, you are an animal of a driver. :rofl

Good luck with the fix. Gonna be some damn good info on this site after this thread, too.

[wertyu78]

+1

Wyatt, you are an animal of a driver. :rofl

Good luck with the fix. Gonna be some damn good info on this site after this thread, too.

Truth be told I don't drive this car any more aggressively than your basic street warrior. It does see some hooning, track events, hard mountain drives and autox's; but 80% of the time I'm simply commuting/hypermiling.

BMW made this area too thin/weak. Time to have some plates welded in to make up for that!

[wertyu78]

Holy moly that crack is huge!

It was bigger than I anticipated but still a very easy fix. I am glad it didn't find its way into the trunk.

[alexandre]

Holy cow, what a crack. What were the symptoms ? Just looked under it ? Probably time to inspect mine with nearly 225k on the clock.

[SoCalZman]

oh my god. Yes it was bigger than I anticipated too. And your subframe is cracked too! What are you going to do about that?

Whats the consensus here? Based on what we are seeing on those cracks, would one of those "reinforcement kits"...sold by turner?....work well?

Whats the plan of attack for this specific car, OP?

[wertyu78]

Holy cow, what a crack. What were the symptoms ? Just looked under it ? Probably time to inspect mine with nearly 225k on the clock.

I had a terrible clunking sound with suspension travel/bumps. Everything was tight and in good order, so it had to be the subframe. Sure enough.... it was. It's best to reinforce if budget allows, whether or not you have any issues. Understandably that's not a very efficient solution. If you catch the crack early then you should be okay. I stopped driving the car until I could get it over to their garage to fix.

[wertyu78]

oh my god. Yes it was bigger than I anticipated too. And your subframe is cracked too! What are you going to do about that?

Whats the consensus here? Based on what we are seeing on those cracks, would one of those "reinforcement kits"...sold by turner?....work well?

Whats the plan of attack for this specific car, OP?

I have an extra subframe at Eurocentric. We will likely repair this one, though. I am using the Bimmerworld kit. I like BW and the customer service they provide. Great group of guys. Matt and Justin will clean everything up and weld the kit in. Afterward they will determine whether or not we should add more reinforcement plates (that they will fab).

http://store.bimmerworld.com/e46-rear-subframechassis-reinforcement-kit-p1176.aspx

[LivesNearCostco]

Wow, is that crack inboard of the left rear mounting spot or in front of the right-front mounting spot? My indie said the E46 bodies after the facelift sometimes crack in one other area that's not covered by the Turner (or BimmerWorld) reinforcement plates and said he fabs up an extra plate for it when he does the reinforcement kit.

I can see if I lowered the whole subframe I could have saved myself a whole lotta trouble, because the halfshafts stay connected, swaybar stays in, diff stays in... guess the only thing I have to do is remove driveshaft so it can be disconnected from diff while diff is still in subframe? Of course I was replacing the rear diff bushings.

My subframe had a similar crack around rear diff bushing, two cracks actually, one roughly opposite where yours is. A previous shop welded up those two cracks which is why my rear diff bushing was welded to the subframe!

[SoCalZman]

Wow, is that crack inboard of the left rear mounting spot or in front of the right-front mounting spot? My indie said the E46 bodies after the facelift sometimes crack in one other area that's not covered by the Turner (or BimmerWorld) reinforcement plates and said he fabs up an extra plate for it when he does the reinforcement kit.

Who is this indie that does this install, since you are local? What does he charge for a job like that?

I am wondering if I should save up for this now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[LivesNearCostco]

Steve Casaletto at Trackstar Racing in Mountain View. However he doesn't weld, so he would take off the subframe, remove the gas tank, prep all the areas by stripping the paint, fab up the extra plate, etc. Then he has a mobile welder come in to weld the plates, then he paints them and puts car back together. I got a quote from him but don't remember exactly what it was. Dinan has a service center down the street and probably does a good job while charging more. I think Tony Colicchio of TC Design (in Milpitas, moving to Campbell) does this, since I know he welds roll cages.

BR Racing in Los Gatos does this (again don't know the cost). I just met the owner with some of his race cars at the Porsche event, but he said about 40% of his business is BMWs. I also know Milt's Service Garage in Vallejo does this, but that's kind of far from me.

I can't weld it myself, but I'm thinking I could epoxy the reinforcement plates on if I rent the DIY place to use their lift.

The positive news is at 186,000 miles, my subframe mount points all looked okay, though as I mentioned I might have that little hairline crack somewhere near one of those points.

[Vas]

Wow talk about a bad crack.

Was dropping the fuel tank needed?

[derbo]

Who is this indie that does this install, since you are local? What does he charge for a job like that?

I am wondering if I should save up for this now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Steve Casaletto at Trackstar Racing in Mountain View. However he doesn't weld, so he would take off the subframe, remove the gas tank, prep all the areas by stripping the paint, fab up the extra plate, etc. Then he has a mobile welder come in to weld the plates, then he paints them and puts car back together. I got a quote from him but don't remember exactly what it was. Dinan has a service center down the street and probably does a good job while charging more. I think Tony Colicchio of TC Design (in Milpitas, moving to Campbell) does this, since I know he welds roll cages.

BR Racing in Los Gatos does this (again don't know the cost). I just met the owner with some of his race cars at the Porsche event, but he said about 40% of his business is BMWs. I also know Milt's Service Garage in Vallejo does this, but that's kind of far from me.

I can't weld it myself, but I'm thinking I could epoxy the reinforcement plates on if I rent the DIY place to use their lift.

The positive news is at 186,000 miles, my subframe mount points all looked okay, though as I mentioned I might have that little hairline crack somewhere near one of those points.


Performance Technic in Pleasanton also does this repair.

[slater]

i've read - and this seems to make sense - that stiffer subframe mounts (poly or solid) would help avoid this problem as it distributes the forces better.

thoughts, anyone?

peter

[LivesNearCostco]

I've also read that and it makes sense in theory. Harder bushings transfer force more sharply/directly to mounting points but prevent the subframe from moving around as much, which should load the 4 mounting points more evenly than with softer (not software) OEM mounts. Note that the PowerFlex yellow mounts are supposed to be pretty squishy.

Many of the aftermarket poly bushings also sit flat against the sheet metal around the mount points (front mounts often have recess to go around big nut) so should apply the compression/upward forces over a wider area of sheet metal.

As for repair costs, I've heard of indie shops charging anywhere from $800 to $2200 for this job including the welding. At $2200 that would typically include the reinforcement kit and poly bushings. $900 would be the shop giving you a good deal and you bring the reinforcement kit and bushings.

[customcracka]

How's the progress coming, Wyatt?

[JupiterBMW]

Holy crap, just saw this thread. Damn Wyatt, hope all is going well with the repairs... Just something to think about, the best way to temporarily stop a fracture due to vibration, stress, etc, is to drill-stop it. Basically, take a drill bit and drill a hole at the end of each hole. For thin sheet metal, an 1/8" drill bit will work well. In fact, even if welding the reinforcement kit over the cracked areas, its still a good idea to drill-stop. It basically prevents the fracture from propagating any further...

Good luck gents.

[wertyu78]

Sorry everyone for the delay in updates. The car is finished and I'm about to go get an alignment. This week kicked my ass, so I'm still in bed. Will write up and post photos soon


Sent from my iPhone

[SoCalZman]

Hows the car feeling????

I called a local shop that has done two reinforcements for two of my qfriends, and Derbo obviously knows them. I was quoted about 1200 for the job. If I wanted all new bushings it would be closer to 2 grand even. Guess I better put aside some funds!

[wertyu78]

Update:

Sorry for the late update. Things have been pretty hectic around here lately. The car was back on the road and without any errors. GPS did a great job on the repair and reinforcement. Poly bushings changed the way the car feels and in a great way. The car feels brand new. I did have to buy camber arms, though. The subframe sits a tad bit lower with 1/8" reinforcement plates and the Powerflex bushings bring it down a bit as well. The stock camber arms didn't have enough adjustment. Thank you Matt and Justin for the speedy repair.

Unfortunately I ran into an issue with my differential. The guy I paid to setup the OSG didn't set the preload and backlash to proper specs. I believe he simply slapped it together. Anyway, we dropped the diff to send off to a credible diff builder and the car is parked at Eurocentric. I changed the oil with John and now it's in hibernation mode while I DD my bosses 911 :)


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_19.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_19.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_18.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_18.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_33.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_33.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_34.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_34.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_17.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_17.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_36.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_36.jpg.html)

Skittles...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_37.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/subframe/subframe%20duecceeeecececece/14_37.jpg.html)


and the commuter for the time being

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/14-2.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/14-2.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/wertyu78/14_1-1.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/wertyu78/media/14_1-1.jpg.html)

[Avetiso]

:thumbsup

[danewilson77]

:thumbsup

+1

Samsung Galaxy S5...

[derbo]

Nice Wyatt! What was the symptom that made you think something was wrong with the diff?

sent from Moto X Dev Edition

[wertyu78]

Nice Wyatt! What was the symptom that made you think something was wrong with the diff?

sent from Moto X Dev Edition

Whining on decel....


Sent from my iPhone

[customcracka]

Geez... Were you getting too much positive or negative camber? Who put the diff together for you? What happened to that GSR that you had?

[Tnhl1989]

How is the poly bushings?

[rkneeshaw]

How is the poly bushings?

Good question, I'd like to know too: did you notice any increase in NVH with the poly diff and poly subframe bushings?

[wertyu78]

Good question, I'd like to know too: did you notice any increase in NVH with the poly diff and poly subframe bushings?



I didn't notice any sacrifice in comfort or ride quality at all, but apparently some have. The stock liquid filled rubber bushings are quite comfortable when they aren't blown - but they allow a lot of movement. The poly was a dramatic change for the better - no more wheel hopping, shifting, thumping from the rear.... only smooth, sharp, and crisp transition from static to under load.