DIY: M track Mode for non-M MK60s

[derbo]

Disclaimer: This is merely what I've done to attempt to install M Track Mode on my ZHP. I am not responsible for any damages to your vehicle following my guide. Nothing should go wrong, but be warn, it can happen! Proceed at your own risk!

MAKE A BACKUP OF YOUR DATEN FILES! Once the module is updated with new parameters, it cannot tell what is new values and what were the original values anymore. The only way to go back to defaults is to restore from a backup of the files. I made a full copy of the E46 modules in a separate folder.

What this guide does:
This is a guide to modify a non-M module to accept M3 MK60 Module values. This setup was written for my ZHP with a M3 LSD installed. The goal was to enable M track mode on a non-M with an LSD which meant a hybrid set of values between an M3 ZCP and 330i ZHP.

I complied the differences between my ZHP, std M3 and ZCP M3 here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PwZoAJHq47_SZz_zRG4L_Axn8X_VvMdZViXjEZheo1Q/edit?usp=sharing

Disclaimer #2
I do not know what exactly the new understeer and oversteer values actually do on a non-M module. However, they seem to actually exist in the module. I added them and enabled them without any errors in DIS.Overall, DSC was far less instrusive (single press of DSC) and it definitely felt a lot better than before. Caveat is that I do have a M3 LSD and it may be different to setup for a non-M without one. Anything outside this scope of this guide is virtually unknown to me!

NON-M without LSD:
LOGIK_HA_SPERRE should be nicht_aktiv
SPERRDIFFERENZREGELUNG should stay aktiv


Now on to the good stuff:


Requirements:

Working NCSexpert
NCSDummy
MK60 Module ie. 2003+MY


This guide also assumes you already know how to change options via NCSexpert. I will not go into any detail about this. There are other threads that can help you with this.


1. Open up NCSexpert and figure out which version of the MK60 Module you have. I have a MK60.C12 so this guide will follow modifying this module. You can just read the data on your MK60 module and it will tell you the number in the middle. This picture show the DSC is .C10

http://i.imgur.com/NFebtqFl.png

2. Load up NCSDummy and select the MK60.C12 module

http://i.imgur.com/xjkhOIKl.png

3. Right click the option you want to add a new parameter to.

http://i.imgur.com/tjCL8Zll.png

4. In this example its "wert_08" and data value "d3". See the bottom for the list of new values to add. Go to each option and add the corresponding value and data value then proceed to the next step.

http://i.imgur.com/9yB8HrUl.png

5. Once finished adding all the new parameters, go to the left bottom and update the module.

http://i.imgur.com/dJWoNJ8l.png

6. You are done! Now you can reload the module to confirm the new values have been added.

http://i.imgur.com/5R99pgMl.png

7. Use NCSexpert and set the MK60 to use the following values:

Red=LSD Values

Logic Limited-Slip Differential
LOGIK_HA_SPERRE aktiv
Differential Locking Control
SPERRDIFFERENZREGELUNG nicht_aktiv
Pre-Engine Drag-Torque Control
PRE_MSR aktiv
Oversteer Friction Coeff. 1
UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_0_2 wert_08
Oversteer Friction Coeff. 2
UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_1_2 wert_11
Understeer Threshold
UNTERSTEUERSCHWELLE_2 wert_04
Understeer Friction Coeff 1
UNTERSTEUERN_MUE_0_2 wert_02
Understeer Friction Coeff 2
UNTERSTEUERN_MUE_1_2 wert_03



New Values to add to the MK60 Module
These values were gathered from the MK60.C06 module. It appears this module is the M3 module and has all the values from a ZCP/STD M3 in it.


Option: UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_0_2
Parameter: wert_08
Data Value: D3

Option: UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_1_2
Parameter: wert_11
Data Value: 80

Option: UNTERSTEUERSCHWELLE_2
Parameter: wert_04
Data Value: 13

Option:UNTERSTEUERN_MUE_0_2
Parameter: wert_02
Data Value: 60

Option: UNTERSTEUERN_MUE_1_2
Parameter: wert_03
Data Value: 20




Hopefully this will work for others. I have not tried this on any other car besides my own. Good luck and enjoy M Track mode, I think. If anyone does try this, please report back that it works! I hope that we can gather more information on what exactly these values does and how a non-M with no LSD will react to this.

Changelog
2014/03/31 version 1. Initial Documentation.

[danewilson77]

Wow. Awesome write up. Thanks derbo.

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[cakM3]

Derek....well done my friend!!!

:chuck

[QC_ZHP]

sub'ing this thread. Awesome work Derbo

[JupiterBMW]

Nicely done Derek...

[PirateZHP]

Idk what any of this means. It's completely over my head. But there has been a lot of work put into this, and for that I thank you, Derek.

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[derbo]

Thanks guys. Matt, M track mode (DSC OFF w/ Training wheels) is enable for a non-M. That itself is the jist. :)

[cakM3]

Matt....another "must have" for me to make my ZHP even more unique (thanks to Derek's hard work). M Track for awesomeness :thumbsup

Lot's of great things happening here on this forum :)

[Avetiso]

Well done.

[wertyu78]

Derbo,

Great work. I will give it a shot when the car is back on the road this week. Thanks for taking the time to do this for all of us to enjoy.

[QC_ZHP]

I'm itching to find out what this will do on an open diff.

[derbo]

TBH,

I dont think I will ever really use this anyways. LOL. I use full DSC when I drive on the streets and on the track I use DSC off. However, hopefully this benefits someone else as I was just merely more curious if the MK60 could take values from a ZCP.

Edit: Wyatt since you will be most likely trying this first out of everyone, I hope you try a before and after test!
You probably already grew accustom to the logic m diff mode. I changed it the day before I change to this m track mode so I am unsure if the changes are really from the understeer values or the logic m mode.

[derbo]

Mods,


Anyone like to move this to the subforum? :)

[danewilson77]

Done

[derbo]

Thanks boss! :thumbup

[Tnhl1989]

Has Wyatt done this yet?

I may be the second to do this soon :)

[derbo]

Anyone try this yet? :)

[Tnhl1989]

Still waiting on getting the m rear end to be prep and my car to be prep and money lol

[ryankokesh]

Kinda want to give this a shot... gotta get my garage computer back in gear first though, lol.

[derbo]

Kinda want to give this a shot... gotta get my garage computer back in gear first though, lol.
I'm not sure what it does if you don't have an LSD. Did you get an LSD?!

sent from my phone

[ryankokesh]

I'm not sure what it does if you don't have an LSD. Did you get an LSD?!

sent from my phone

I didn't :(

Has no one tried this with an open diff yet? What exactly is it altering?

[derbo]

I didn't :(

Has no one tried this with an open diff yet? What exactly is it altering?

The DSC stage 1 values are modified to the DSC stage 1 values of the M3 ZCP module. DSC stage 1 on the M3 ZCP is essentially "M Track Mode" and it was designed for an LSD.

[Rovert]

I feel like it drives like my old ZHP with DSC tapped once quickly. Since the non ZCP ///M has either DSC/ASC+T on or off, enabling M-Track on my car gave it similar dual stage DSC capability.

I could oversteer my ZHP just a tad with stage one and then when it was too much, DSC would intervene and bring the back in with a jerk albiet.

With M track on my ///M, DSC won't activate instantly so I can unsettle the yaw just a bit but once DSC noticed that it would cut power and reel the car back in as fast as DSC always does. Efficiently and without much drama with the same power cut and jerk as my ZHP.

If I am too sudden with M track, DSC will intervene and nanny the "would be" fun instantly making it feel like full DSC is active.

M-track will not allow you to do smoke burning drifts like Chris Harris and Jeremy Clarkson does. Nor will it allow you to smoothly recover to your intended direction unwinding full lock with tires spinning. LOL

[cakM3]

I'm not sure what it does if you don't have an LSD. Did you get an LSD?!

sent from my phone

I wonder if this will work with any LSD, or do you have to have the ///M LSD?

[derbo]

I wonder if this will work with any LSD, or do you have to have the ///M LSD?

This is purely speculation on my part:

It should work with any LSD but it is designed for the factory one. I would imagine if you wanted full potential of any LSD you would have the DSC fully off and this is more of a "relaxed baby monitor" than the conventional M one.

To be fair, I think M track mode is mainly a more lenient DSC and thats all it is. I hardly ever use to but when I ever come across a rainy day track day, I'll be sure to leave it on till I am comfortable with the conditions.

[rkneeshaw]

Can someone describe to me how this mod alters the function of the DSC button in our ZHPs?

For example, in stock form:
1. DSC is on by default when I start my car. (granny mode)
2. When I press the DSC button once, it turns off the traction control but DSC remains active and kicks in when I start to slide the car. (party pooper mode)
3. When I press and hold the DSC button, traction control and DSC are fully disabled (fun mode)

Does the car still operate like this, except DSC is slightly more tolerant of rear wheel spin? Can I still turn off the "traction control" and keep DSC on by pressing DSC once, and fully disable the system by pressing and holding the DSC button?

In other words, does this mod change it to operate this way:
1. DSC track mode is on by default when I start my car
2. When I press the DSC button once, it turns off traction control but DSC track mode remains active and will kick in if I start the slide the car enough
3. When I press and hold the DSC button, traction control and DSC are fully disabled

...?

[derbo]

Can someone describe to me how this mod alters the function of the DSC button in our ZHPs?

For example, in stock form:
1. DSC is on by default when I start my car. (granny mode)
2. When I press the DSC button once, it turns off the traction control but DSC remains active and kicks in when I start to slide the car. (party pooper mode)
3. When I press and hold the DSC button, traction control and DSC are fully disabled (fun mode)

Does the car still operate like this, except DSC is slightly more tolerant of rear wheel spin? Can I still turn off the "traction control" by pressing DSC once, and fully disable the system by pressing and holding the DSC button?

#2 is more forgiving just like how M Track Mode works on the ZCP. It won't make a difference during #1 or #3.

The only exceptions is the red values in the post. These will allow DSC to work in parallel with the LSD instead of acting like an electronic LSD in the non-M cars. This will make the DSC less intrusive in #1.

[rkneeshaw]

Ok so PRE_MSR, LOGIK_HA_SPERRE, and SPERRDIFFERENZREGELUNG effect DSC behavior in both modes 1 and 2.

And then the updated values for understeer and oversteer really are only effecting DSC behavior in mode 2.

Do I have that right?

[rkneeshaw]

By the way, I really like the concept of this M track mode. Its how normal default mode DSC should be... Its not too intrusive but still will catch you if you get too wild.

I wish we could make M track mode the default "on" position and then have the one click DSC off that stock M3's have.

[rkneeshaw]

So now I'm curious. If TRAKTIONDIFFERENZREGELUNG set to nicht_aktiv sets DSC into dual mode DSC (rather than the 3 mode DSC where, you know, you have to hold the DSC button to fully disable DSC), then I wonder if setting PRE_MSR to aktiv at the same time will mean m-track is the default DSC mode when DSC is active...

I also wonder what the limits 1 and limits 2 refer to for the understeer and oversteer limits. In other words, does oversteer and understeer limits 1 refer to the "mode 1" DSC, and oversteer and understeer limits 2 refer to "mode 2" DSC (only used when DSC is in the 3-mode setup)? I can't imagine when the two different levels of limits would be used other than the different modes of DSC.

[Rovert]

I find with my car M track doesn't really help much in the dry unless I'm in a super tight/low speed hairpin. If you're forcing the tire to slip with so much dry grip, then that energy release will automatically trip DSC to retard throttle and apply ABS to the corresponding corner.

In the rain though it completely changes and I can put my car into full opposite lock turns because the delay that's added to M track mode is long enough to let the car swing it's rear. But when it happens, DSC kicks in helping to bring the chassis back under control. It will not let you hold a hero drift. You need everything off to achieve that kind of hooning style.

[derbo]

So now I'm curious. If TRAKTIONDIFFERENZREGELUNG set to nicht_aktiv sets DSC into dual mode DSC (rather than the 3 mode DSC where, you know, you have to hold the DSC button to fully disable DSC), then I wonder if setting PRE_MSR to aktiv at the same time will mean m-track is the default DSC mode when DSC is active...

I also wonder what the limits 1 and limits 2 refer to for the understeer and oversteer limits. In other words, does oversteer and understeer limits 1 refer to the "mode 1" DSC, and oversteer and understeer limits 2 refer to "mode 2" DSC (only used when DSC is in the 3-mode setup)? I can't imagine when the two different levels of limits would be used other than the different modes of DSC.

Did you ever figure this out Ryan?

[rkneeshaw]

Did you ever figure this out Ryan?

Never did. I ended up being quite satisfied with the way my DSC is configured that I haven't gone back to toy with it. I detailed my latest changes over here: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?12548-Programming-the-DSC-MK60-for-LSD&p=452730#post452730

Basically its much more subtle now in "normal mode" that I dont have much issue with it. And the one-touch-off makes it super easy to turn off when I know I want to hoon.

[derbo]

Never did. I ended up being quite satisfied with the way my DSC is configured that I haven't gone back to toy with it. I detailed my latest changes over here: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?12548-Programming-the-DSC-MK60-for-LSD&p=452730#post452730

Basically its much more subtle now in "normal mode" that I dont have much issue with it. And the one-touch-off makes it super easy to turn off when I know I want to hoon.

I may have to dig into this again Ryan. You have peaked my interest. Adding the post as a quote in here.


Guys, I made some further tweaks to my MK60 module and I LOVE it.

Lately my DSC has been really annoying because when it steps in, it really STEPS in, and STOMPS all over my fun. It just CUTS throttle and it feels like someone jabs the brakes in the middle of my fun time.

So I started comparing my MK60 settings to the M3 specs, and taking a much closer look.

That's when I looked a lot closer at the Oversteer limits and Gear Torque Control settings.

The oversteer limits (UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_0_2 and UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_1_2) settings are pretty straightforward, I just set them to match the M3 values.

Since I don't purposely understeer my car for any reason, I left the understeer settings alone, the ZHP values are fine IMO.

Next I looked closer at the Gear Torque Control values (GEARMOMENTREGLER_MAX_HA_2 and GEARMOMENTREGLER_MIN_HA_2). I created and/or set values on these so they mirrored the M3's MK60's values. I'm not exactly sure what these were going to do, but, I gave it a shot, and I think these directly influence how intrusive the DSC is when it cuts power, because it is sooooo much better.

It became clear to me (I overlooked this before) that the actual values for the "wert" parameters can, and sometimes are, different between MK60 module versions. e.g. a "wert_04" in the MK60 C6 module doesn't have the same actual value as the "wert_04" parameter in the MK60 C13 module. So in some cases I created a "wert" parameter with an M3 value and used that to get the values the same as an M3. Thanks to derbo's thread here for the detail on creating parameters and setting values:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showt...or-non-M-MK60s

So the net result is that my DSC module is actually very tolerable now. The oversteer limits let me get on the throttle through the turn and allow the rear to start to step out ever so slightly before the DSC gently kicks in and keeps the car on the line. I have to emphasis gently. Because I almost didn't notice it kicking in, there was no CUTTING of the throttle, just a little adjustment that kept the car powering forward, on target. Also, from a dig, the DSC is allowing slightly more wheel spin before kicking in, and it is still cutting power but not nearly has harshly as the stock settings did.

So the only settings I've changed from stock are those relating to my Wavetrac LSD and one-touch-off, and these.

Car feels so good now, do this at your own risk, but I definitely recommend it.

[rkneeshaw]

I may have to dig into this again Ryan. You have peaked my interest. Adding the post as a quote in here.

It's totally worth it!

[wertyu78]

Finally giving this a shot today. Already pulled the .trc, made the changes in NCSdummy, and wrote the changes to a .man; just got to get out to the car later and give it a whirl.

I've been running the DSC one button on/off setup for awhile, so If I did it correctly, the ZCP settings should be applied to "DSC On", which is exactly what I want - less intrusiveness for when I forget to turn it off (I always turn it off when I get in the car). I'll echo Ryan's thoughts: the default settings for the ZHP are way too intrusive for throttle input.

Good conditions today in Georgia to try this - it's pouring outside and I'm on really worn tires.

[slater]

Good conditions today in Georgia to try this - it's pouring outside and I'm on really worn tires.

LOL.

i have been wanting to do this as well, but i need to get my NCSExpert + dummy skills happening first. when the Touring mechanicals are done, i will definitely be giving this a shot.

[nextelbuddy]

im waiting until i get a newer M3 cluster. the one I have is from a 2002 with a 2001 build date and is missing the M track mode cluster indicator in the lower left corner.

Since I have S54 DME, S54 3.62 Diff and M3 cluster, it should be as easy as just enabling it and be done with it right?

as soon as I get the updated cluster ill tackle this. Shouldnt we be able to assign M track mode enable/disable to the I/O button on the steering wheel? the CSL steering wheel has that same button with the same label (weather or not it has the same function I dont know)

[terraphantm]

CSL/ZCP module has a different flash - no known way of flashing the software yet.

[nextelbuddy]

just an update here. My car has MK60 mdule, MSS54 DME, 24H cluster.

with Terras help in other cluster related threads. I was also able to flash M track mode properly.

I had to make sure my VO was set to *EV53 first in my LCM otherwise my MK60 would not respond to my NCS expert requests read or writes. i tackled flashing the MK60 module with the proper changes first.

then tackled flashing the cluster to enable m track mode as well.

now when I press the DSC button, only the M track mode indicator displays in the cluster and press + hold DSC button displays the DSC light in cluster and M track mode goes away.

[derbo]

just an update here. My car has MK60 mdule, MSS54 DME, 24H cluster.

with Terras help in other cluster related threads. I was also able to flash M track mode properly.

I had to make sure my VO was set to *EV53 first in my LCM otherwise my MK60 would not respond to my NCS expert requests read or writes. i tackled flashing the MK60 module with the proper changes first.

then tackled flashing the cluster to enable m track mode as well.

now when I press the DSC button, only the M track mode indicator displays in the cluster and press + hold DSC button displays the DSC light in cluster and M track mode goes away.

Wohoo! I'm glad someone tried this! :)


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