ZHP Pricing Tiers

[COBMWs]

This may or may not be the appropriate location for this thread, but I though I'd start here - if it were deemed valuable enough, it could even be a "sticky" here (clearly with much more input from the experts in our community here).

Mostly, I simply want to share my thoughts based on my own personal experience shopping for a ZHP over the past several months, and see what others think. But it may also be helpful for shoppers as well as sellers to get an idea of the market on our beloved ZHPs. As we all know, the popular online pricing resources don't necessarily take into account the "real" market for these. Fact is, we enthusiasts more or less drive the market on such cars.

So I sort of formulated "tiers" in my mind based primarily on mileage. Obviously, when we're talking about these 8-12 year old cars, each one can bring its own unique nature, but mileage is likely the most significant factor, with the assumption that the condition is reflective of the mileage. And body style has some impact as well, though it seems that each of them has its own set of followers. Here's what I've seen:


Mileage greater than 100k - $7-8k up to $10-11k


Good mileage (70k - 90k) - $10-11k up to $13-14k


Very good mileage (50k - 60k) - $14k - $18k


Rare low mileage (20k - 40k) - $18k on up to low $20k's

What's nice about the market is generally there's a ZHP out there for everyone. :)

[SoCalZman]

You're missing 90-100k. I would add a few thousand to each of those for ZHPs located in California and depending on equipment levels. There seems to be a premium for west coast cars.

I had to pay the very high end of what my car was worth due to a stiff seller. I was ok with it because it had almost everything I wanted, including color, and even a few things I didn't even know were available (PDC). The only thing I wish it had was seat heaters, which I am rectifying now.

[COBMWs]

Well, I guess when I say "90k" I mean "90k's".

I suppose California would indeed by a desirable market due to its favorable climate for the cars. It's definitely on my list of places to look for ZHPs.

[ELCID86]

To me the mileage is just one factor. 120-140k mi doesn't bother me much if there is good documentation of maintenance.

[ELCID86]

Well, I guess when I say "90k" I mean "90k's".


That's how I read it. up to 99,999

[NoVAphotog]

This is a good breakdown, but I would say it is definitely missing an additional "bonus" if you will to some of the tiers for the amount of records a particular car in the respective tier has. For example, I could be looking at two cars, one, with 110k priced at the higher end due to the fact that the complete maintenance records are available to me as a potential buyer and that several of the major repairs/replacement operations have been done to the car (coolant, inspection II, vanos, etc). The second car, maybe is in the 70-90k range and has zero records and is priced higher due to the mileage.

Which one you choose depends on your wallet obviously and your sense of risk and overall feeling for the car. It's these aspects that make it a far more challenging endeavor than just looking at the number of miles.

[Newjack]

Manual ZHP's go for more than automatics. Also certain color combos are worth more. Alpine white is a fairly rare color for a ZHP and tends to up the value a bit. Also god tier natural brown leather is worth more.

After that you just have to take into consideration mileage and how well the previous owner tool care of the car. Does it have a maintenance record and what kind of repairs does it need?

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[slater]

To me the mileage is just one factor. 120-140k mi doesn't bother me much if there is good documentation of maintenance.

agreed. i would also be totally happy with a higher-mileage car, if the maintenance was right. 1-owner cars are also highly-desirable. my coupe was a high-mileage, 1-owner car that was priced so low i am embarrassed to post it here. :) but i went for it because of the history and condition.

at this point, ultra-low mileage cars could suffer from lack of use (rubber bits drying out) - so i am on the fence about those and whether they deserve the premium, as you really ought to immediately sink money into them (cooling system refurb). i'm eyeing a 27K-mile car now, priced at $19K, and a 78K-mile car, priced at $13K. i think the 78K car is likely a better value for me, as i'll pile on those 50K miles in 3 years.

peter

[COBMWs]

All good points - thanks for sharing.

Definitely hard to pin down values in general on these cars, or any older BMW. As most of you pointed out, attention to maintenance and repairs is a major factor. One reason I tried to state a fairly large range within those tiers.

I supposed I'm also killing time with the thread as I've looked at every single listing that exists in the country for a ZHP right now. :)

[ELCID86]

good discussion. So with two cars in the sig that have paper tags, you are still looking?

[COBMWs]

Ha! That was a picture taken a year ago when we purchased the cars (coincidentally, we found both those, local, within a week of each other).

I've just sold the 335, and my wife still drives her wagon - I may have to pry the keys away from her dead hands.

Having said all that - I'm always looking for the next ride. :)

[JKO_ZHP]

Close enough in my case. 2005 coupe with low 70k range in miles, got it for 15 or 16k I believe. I was willing to pay their asking and not let the chance of someone else picking it up pass since the owner worked at a BMW dealership. That plus the previous owner before her (the original owner) was a regular customer at that dealership so they knew what was going on with the car.

[Simmsled]

This looks solid, OP.

[johnrando]

Seems logical enough, and good input by the others. I do know that verts have a premium to them... not sure if sedans/coupes makes a difference. Blue book will bump up if cold weather package, NAV, and other items, but not sure how that translates on the resale market. Maybe people expect those things on cars nowadays?

[Au1994]

Good info and seems directionally correct. Maintenance records on any German auto is going to add to price no doubt and I do subscribe to the "top goes down, price goes up" line of thinking. But I am admittedly a little biased!

How's your search going and what are some of the specifics you're looking for?

[Au1994]

Seems logical enough, and good input by the others. I do know that verts have a premium to them... not sure if sedans/coupes makes a difference. Blue book will bump up if cold weather package, NAV, and other items, but not sure how that translates on the resale market. Maybe people expect those things on cars nowadays?

Rando I think the ZHP model years put it right on the cusp of the expectation that things like bun warmers and nav are standard on a premium brand. Although surprisingly my E92 didn't have either. The only pkg that one had was the premium pkg.

[COBMWs]

I'm trying to be patient on the search. I really would like "reasonable" miles of like 70-80k or less, but I'm starting to realize that if the car has broken the 100k mile barrier but has been properly maintained, it may be a good direction as long as it's priced accordingly.

I'm really open to the body style - I like the look of the coupe/convertible, but a sedan would be a bit more practical for more daily use.

I probably shouldn't have passed on the '04 sedan in Florida that had 74k miles, for $11,500. It was one of the first ones I considered, so I passed in favor of a continued search, but in hindsight, that was a good deal.

But that's alright - I thoroughly enjoy the search process.

[elsanto]

After buying a 68k 05 with no history, I would suggest going with a higher mileage car that has already had the known issues taken care of... unless you want to spend most of your weekends turning wrenches..

I've done: FCABS, Windshield washer pump, cooling fan clutch, all pulleys at front of engine, thermostat, water pump, swaybar endlinks, Vanos, valvecover gasket, and oil filter housing gasket.. All in 6 months of ownership, and the car showed very nicely when purchased, very clean interior, full clear bra on front end, no stains dents curbrash etc. It's an Auto so I doubt it was beat up.

[COBMWs]

That's good insight on the mileage considerations. Thanks!

[johnrando]

Sure is, that's right about where you'd really want to do all that stuff, and could easily be a point where people sell because they don't want to.

[gmurphy]

I would agree. I bought mine with 120,000 miles but it had dealer service history and the dealer it self fixed a lot of things too before they put it up for sale. The car was actually originally bought from the dealer by the first and second owners.


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[goodoo]

My car (2005 330ci) was $14k with 91k miles from an audi dealer. I would have been happy if I could have brought it down to 13k but it was the right color, manual, exterior was immaculate, and had a bunch of other crap that I would have ended up installing anyway.

List of crap it came with that made it worth $14k

Xenons
Cold weather Package
3M Invisible Bra
Dice Media Bridge

[JupiterBMW]

Personally, one thing I'd like to add is that I see the "California Car" as a complete joke... Yes, the climate is favorable, but that doesn't mean much really. The climate in many other parts of the country are just as nice. The key factor when it comes to climate is garages I feel, and the type of weather the car was driven in. I don't even like to drive my car in the rain, and many times, I won't...

When I lived in California, I saw more cars getting backed into/bumped during parallel parking scenarios, people hitting cars with doors, etc etc. Now that I live in Florida, I have never seen this. I don't even bother with the "Waldo parking" that everyone seems to do, because I've never had a problem, not even at Walmart... As a whole, I believe the cars in South Florida are nicer than those in California. The roads appear better too, which I believe helps with that...

So, I know the majority of you will disagree, but I just wanted to say this because all the time people say "California Car" and it just makes me shake my head... Please don't take this as a which state is better debate, that is definitely NOT what this is... I'm just stating my opinions on the comments about cars from CA.



As for the mileage tiers in the OP, I suppose that is a good thought, but I think there are just too many other factors that contribute to this. Personally, I'd pay $2-3K more for an alpine white car versus another color... And I don't care how low the price is, I will not buy a black car. Again, just my opinions...

[tkundhi]

This thread is a nice general guide. But as others have mentioned. Color, options, documented maintenance and location all factor in. In my opinion these affect price much more than just mileage.

Also don't expect the higher priced, documented low mileage cars to be perfect. They are still 9+ years old now. Even if you did your homework well I suggest setting aside a small budget to address little things once you have the car. For example I did the MAF, FCAB and valve cover gasket within 30 days of my purchase. Now I feel the car is close to perfect. But I'm sure if I sold it today another owner could find something else.


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[ELCID86]

This thread is a nice general guide. But as others have mentioned. Color, options, documented maintenance and location all factor in. In my opinion these affect price much more than just mileage.

Also don't expect the higher priced, documented low mileage cars to be perfect. They are still 9+ years old now. Even if you did your homework well I suggest setting aside a small budget to address little things once you have the car. For example I did the MAF, FCAB and valve cover gasket within 30 days of my purchase. Now I feel the car is close to perfect. But I'm sure if I sold it today another owner could find something else.


+1

[COBMWs]

The responses on this thread have definitely opened up my mind to higher mileage ZHPs with solid maintenance history.

Opens up the search a bit! :)

[johnrando]

Personally, one thing I'd like to add is that I see the "California Car" as a complete joke... Yes, the climate is favorable, but that doesn't mean much really. The climate in many other parts of the country are just as nice. The key factor when it comes to climate is garages I feel, and the type of weather the car was driven in. I don't even like to drive my car in the rain, and many times, I won't...

When I lived in California, I saw more cars getting backed into/bumped during parallel parking scenarios, people hitting cars with doors, etc etc. Now that I live in Florida, I have never seen this. I don't even bother with the "Waldo parking" that everyone seems to do, because I've never had a problem, not even at Walmart... As a whole, I believe the cars in South Florida are nicer than those in California. The roads appear better too, which I believe helps with that...

So, I know the majority of you will disagree, but I just wanted to say this because all the time people say "California Car" and it just makes me shake my head... Please don't take this as a which state is better debate, that is definitely NOT what this is... I'm just stating my opinions on the comments about cars from CA.



As for the mileage tiers in the OP, I suppose that is a good thought, but I think there are just too many other factors that contribute to this. Personally, I'd pay $2-3K more for an alpine white car versus another color... And I don't care how low the price is, I will not buy a black car. Again, just my opinions...

I just think it's really about not being in the harsh weather conditions - driving on iced/salted roads that have been beat up with potholes, and that's just the name that stuck. I lived in New Orleans, and while you don't have ice/salted roads, they are some of the worst roads I've ever seen anywhere... potholes and bumps galore, as the water table is right under the roads. So, I wouldn't call a car a New Orleans car. :biggrin

[jiggz]

Personally, one thing I'd like to add is that I see the "California Car" as a complete joke... Yes, the climate is favorable, but that doesn't mean much really. The climate in many other parts of the country are just as nice. The key factor when it comes to climate is garages I feel, and the type of weather the car was driven in. I don't even like to drive my car in the rain, and many times, I won't...

When I lived in California, I saw more cars getting backed into/bumped during parallel parking scenarios, people hitting cars with doors, etc etc. Now that I live in Florida, I have never seen this. I don't even bother with the "Waldo parking" that everyone seems to do, because I've never had a problem, not even at Walmart... As a whole, I believe the cars in South Florida are nicer than those in California. The roads appear better too, which I believe helps with that...

So, I know the majority of you will disagree, but I just wanted to say this because all the time people say "California Car" and it just makes me shake my head... Please don't take this as a which state is better debate, that is definitely NOT what this is... I'm just stating my opinions on the comments about cars from CA.



As for the mileage tiers in the OP, I suppose that is a good thought, but I think there are just too many other factors that contribute to this. Personally, I'd pay $2-3K more for an alpine white car versus another color... And I don't care how low the price is, I will not buy a black car. Again, just my opinions...

I get what you're saying about the 'California Car' thing but there is some validity to it, IMO. I'm currently on the hunt for an X5 and thought I'd found 'the one' - I had a PPI done on it because it was from New Jersey and the entire underside was corroded. I'm not saying all cars from the N.E. are like this, but it was a 2011 w/ 28K miles, and a bit of a wakeup call. I'm looking for a very specific color/configuration so I'm not just shopping locally - I'd take a 'California Car'

FWIW I'd take a FL car too, but few have heated seats and they all have Sand interior!

[Avetiso]

I've always heard "CA car" referred to only when talking about rust. It never has anything to do with paint, maintenance, accident history, etc... at least not in my experience when I worked at a dealer.

It's not only CA, though. My ZHP from NM was clean as a whistle. My ZHP from Ohio... different story. (talking about rust)