Think Tank: CA "Legal" Headers

[Avetiso]

First of all, my sincerest apologies for reviving a dead horse for the sole purpose of beating it to death again.

There has been a lot of headers talk on the boards recently, and one common thing that the CA people bring up is how much it sucks that we can't really touch headers because of our emissions legislation.

I want to have this thread as a way to pool the thoughts of everyone here to solve this issue so that us CA can finally get rid of the crappy headers the car came with.

So here is what many of us in CA are after: we want to install catless headers on my ZHP.

The guidelines:

1. Without triggering a CEL on our car.
2. Without needing to tune our car to remove the CEL or post-cat monitoring. (most of us would like to Eurocharge, but they don't do this)
3. The car much still pass emissions inspections with one exception: the car can still fail a visual. This is not that big of an issue because I've never seen anyone visually inspect my car during smog.
4. The car must still pass a sniffer test. Even though these are technically being phased out in CA, many smog shops, like mine, still use them. Thus, we will have to use after market cats.
5. Use of wideband controllers or O2 sims is highly discouraged, but still an option. The reason I'd rather not use this is because O2 sims are usually reported not to work, and an LS-1 controller is pretty pricey, and only masks the problem (and would still fail a sniffer because we need cats regardless)

I really hope anyone that has any info can chime in here and see if we can figure this out. If you have any friends that might know, any guys you know in smog, crazy ex-girlfriend who was surprisingly good with cars, old grandfather who was a tank mechanic in WWII... anybody.

Here is my idea, and I want to so what you guys think:

What if, after installing headers, I added two 400 cell racing cats right when the headers ended? And I mean RIGHT after. Weld on the flanges that usually come up to the headers right onto the cats, and route the post-cat O2 sensors right after. This is only about 8 inches past their OEM location. You could also use defoulers to possibly get cleaner air coming up to the sensors to avoid a CEL, and 400 cell should technically pass emissions.

Only flaw I see here is that there are still reports of CELs because of the farther location of the O2 sensors.

Any input?

[Hornung418]

Visual inspection will kill anything.

Sent from my GS3.

[johnrando]

Great thread Dario. I'm wondering what can be done as well. Maybe post in the California section of e46fanatics too. And Justin, IIRC, I believe they are eliminating the visual portion of the test. You only have to smog every two years, I even wonder about swapping everything thing out just for that.

[LivesNearCostco]

I've considered doing what JR said... pass next smog check, install catless headers and then live with CEL for 2 years until the next smog check. Each of my smog checks did include a visual inspection but it usually wasn't very thorough and I'm pretty sure I could find a place that would ignore headers as long as they still had cats somewhere and passed the sniffer.

The Danish vendor Schmeidman advertising in Roundel always offers headers with cats for the M54. Cats are right after headers and they say you re-route existing O2 sensors over the transmission to connect post-cats. This solution hasn't gained a lot of popularity in the US, I think for 3 reasons.
1) Have to import from Denmark, paying international shipping
2) Not clear if it fits E46 with 6-speed transmission
3) Somebody claimed they bought this and still got CEL because of new location of cats

Didn't somebody try the Magnaflow high-performance manifolds (or headers?) that have cats and are 49-state legal?

[Hornung418]

No visual inspection means do what ever the hell you want over here. Just make sure you can keep the light off and you are good.

Sent from my GS3.

[Avetiso]

Visual inspection will kill anything.

Sent from my GS3.
I believe I addressed that in OP. My smog place doesn't do it, so it's a bit of a gamble, but, they are getting rid of it slowly.

Great thread Dario. I'm wondering what can be done as well. Maybe post in the California section of e46fanatics too. And Justin, IIRC, I believe they are eliminating the visual portion of the test. You only have to smog every two years, I even wonder about swapping everything thing out just for that.
E46F? Let me borrow your flamesuit, mine won't cut it. "Go search, beaten to death, blah blah blah," but no useful information. :rofl

I'd rather not switch every two years. Yeah, 2 years is plenty of time, but from what I hear, the job is a PITA, and I'd rather not have the CEL.

I've considered doing what JR said... pass next smog check, install catless headers and then live with CEL for 2 years until the next smog check. Each of my smog checks did include a visual inspection but it usually wasn't very thorough and I'm pretty sure I could find a place that would ignore headers as long as they still had cats somewhere and passed the sniffer.

The Danish vendor Schmeidman advertising in Roundel always offers headers with cats for the M54. Cats are right after headers and they say you re-route existing O2 sensors over the transmission to connect post-cats. This solution hasn't gained a lot of popularity in the US, I think for 3 reasons.
1) Have to import from Denmark, paying international shipping
2) Not clear if it fits E46 with 6-speed transmission
3) Somebody claimed they bought this and still got CEL because of new location of cats

Didn't somebody try the Magnaflow high-performance manifolds (or headers?) that have cats and are 49-state legal?
I'm not sure 200 cell is enough to pass, and that's what Schmeidmann uses. Also, it's still a fairly expensive option. My idea is that we could capitilize on ebay/bimmerbake headers given their low cost.

No visual inspection means do what ever the hell you want over here. Just make sure you can keep the light off and you are good.

Sent from my GS3.
Show off. :biggrin

[wsmeyer]

Great thread Dario. I'm wondering what can be done as well. Maybe post in the California section of e46fanatics too. And Justin, IIRC, I believe they are eliminating the visual portion of the test. You only have to smog every two years, I even wonder about swapping everything thing out just for that.

The new inspection process that they keep delaying is visual + OBDII. It's the sniffer test that is going away.

I think the only viable option is swapping it out every two years.

[Avetiso]

The new inspection process that they keep delaying is visual + OBDII. It's the sniffer test that is going away.

I think the only viable option is swapping it out every two years.
Shoot, I remember now. That is correct. However, many are still lenient on the visual inspection part, so it's still an option; it's just up to you to find a smog shop that will do that.

If, for instance, we do the "swap every two years" deal, I'm assuming all we need is to remove the CEL with a controller? I'd rather come up with a permanent solution, however.

[Hermes]

I think the only viable option is swapping it out every two years.

I thought about doing this with the 320i when I was given the long tube headers by my buddy as that car still falls under smog laws. I decided against it since it's a PITA despite the fact that engine is way easier to work on and no CEL to deal with.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/320i/F2C8C7D1-43B9-4783-B1B4-4E030495D075-441-000000E1719E3806.jpg
E21 is second from top, the rest are 2002

[Smolck]

To me it isn't all that difficult to do, just a matter of money. Find someone with considerable fabrication skills and have them weld in the cats to the headers.

I also don't see why a set of good quality cats directly after the header flanges wouldn't work. Have a shop add the bungs for post cat 02 sensors and extend the OEM sensors to fit. It really isn't that hard and most exhaust shops are not THAT expensive to have them do work like that.

Or you could move to a free state where you aren't fined for flatulence......(sorry, I had to say it)

[LivesNearCostco]

How does one extend the OEM sensors? I think they have 4 wires each--just splice in 4 wire extensions to each sensor? Or is there an extension cable available at the plug end? I suppose if the cats are only 8" farther down with headers compared to OEM manifolds, the OEM O2 harnesses might work if routed over the transmission, Schmeidman style.

[Hermes]

To me it isn't all that difficult to do, just a matter of money. Find someone with considerable fabrication skills and have them weld in the cats to the headers.

I also don't see why a set of good quality cats directly after the header flanges wouldn't work. Have a shop add the bungs for post cat 02 sensors and extend the OEM sensors to fit. It really isn't that hard and most exhaust shops are not THAT expensive to have them do work like that.

Shad, the problem here is legally exhaust shops are not allowed to do that - fines are huge and/or license revoked. A friend who can weld for you is another story

[derbo]

This is an absurd option.


Hollow out the stock headers (to visually pass with dummy O2 sensors there) and then install cats in section 1 with extended o2 sensors.


Personally most smog shops arent coherent enough to release the cats are downstream from the original location and will most likely just follow the OBDII test. A euro style header + section 1 200CEL cats will most likely keep the OBD sensors happy. I am glad I have a friend who owns a smog shop when the time comes.

[Avetiso]

To me it isn't all that difficult to do, just a matter of money. Find someone with considerable fabrication skills and have them weld in the cats to the headers.

I also don't see why a set of good quality cats directly after the header flanges wouldn't work. Have a shop add the bungs for post cat 02 sensors and extend the OEM sensors to fit. It really isn't that hard and most exhaust shops are not THAT expensive to have them do work like that.

Or you could move to a free state where you aren't fined for flatulence......(sorry, I had to say it)
The question is: would that indeed keep OBDII happy? Reports say that CEL still returns. This idea is my best bet, though, and all other downstream cats that I've seen weren't right after the flanges, but a few inches downstream.

Yeah, CA sucks in that regard. :( The things they are doing to truckers are far worse, though.


How does one extend the OEM sensors? I think they have 4 wires each--just splice in 4 wire extensions to each sensor? Or is there an extension cable available at the plug end? I suppose if the cats are only 8" farther down with headers compared to OEM manifolds, the OEM O2 harnesses might work if routed over the transmission, Schmeidman style.
The OEM sensors reach pretty far with just some re-routing. The only question with this setup is would it eliminate CEL? Pretty sure 400 cell would pass the sniffer, just gotta make sure there are no errors coming along with it.

Shad, the problem here is legally exhaust shops are not allowed to do that - fines are huge and/or license revoked. A friend who can weld for you is another story
Exhaust shops can't do it, but I'm pretty sure you could just find a fab shop to do it. Plenty of those around...

This is an absurd option.


Hollow out the stock headers (to visually pass with dummy O2 sensors there) and then install cats in section 1 with extended o2 sensors.


Personally most smog shops arent coherent enough to release the cats are downstream from the original location and will most likely just follow the OBDII test. A euro style header + section 1 200CEL cats will most likely keep the OBD sensors happy. I am glad I have a friend who owns a smog shop when the time comes.
Not as absurd as you might think. I actually had a local shop recommend a "cell delete," which I assume means destroy the innards of the cats. Would you net the same gains, though? Pretty sure the SS reps are better for power by design, as well, not simply for the lack of cats.

[derbo]

The hollow cats would be fine, but the CEL would ignite once it realizes the post-02 sensor is reading all sorts of different readings. You would need the post cats in section 1 to get rid of the CEL without a modification to the DME unit.

[Avetiso]

The hollow cats would be fine, but the CEL would ignite once it realizes the post-02 sensor is reading all sorts of different readings. You would need the post cats in section 1 to get rid of the CEL without a modification to the DME unit.
That's what I'm proposing. I'd put them in right after the headers end.

[derbo]

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232541&d=1182800608


Honestly by design, its going to be terrible. The only thing I can think of is hiding the fact its a true SS header with fake cat covers on it.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a85b0a4140.jpg

How you will do that, is beyond me. :)

[Avetiso]

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232541&d=1182800608


Honestly by design, its going to be terrible. The only thing I can think of is hiding the fact its a true SS header with fake cat covers on it.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a85b0a4140.jpg

How you will do that, is beyond me. :)
I honestly don't think a lot of the techs are smart enough to figure it out. If you paint both the headers and cats with high temp flat black, or get them coated, you could probably make it look stock enough for someone to pass you, so long as the car passed the sniffer and OBDII. It all depends on visuals...

[Smolck]

I wish I had taken pictures of the way the stock manifold goes from the three exhaust port pipes to the cats. The pipes are crimped as it is, but did you know that the "collector" which is just before the pipe gets larger for the cat is a whopping 1"? That means your exhaust for all three cylinders has to flow through a 1" diameter pipe and then into the cats. The fact that our cars make 235hp this way is just insane. And it is clearly why headers open them up and offer huge gains, especially on the ZHP with the bigger cams. No, gutting the stock cats won't do jack.

I didn't think about the fact that CA muffler shops probably have to go through a TON of red tape to work on stock cars, let alone modifieds. Around here, just about any muffler shop I roll into will do anything I ask.

I guess the option really is to find a welder/fabber and pay him on the side. I have also seen these on ebay, might be worth a shot if one of you have $600.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-HEADER-MID-PIPE-EXHAUST-SYSTEM-KIT-01-06-BMW-E46-2-5-2-8-3-0L-I6-/170865197826?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c85c0302&vxp=mtr

It would be bolt on, and the cats have bungs for the 02 sensors. Might just work.....

[Avetiso]

I can easily find a fabber if my dad doesn't feel like helping me. He never approves of me modding my car, so w/e. Plenty of Russians that'll work for me for cheap.

My biggest concern is this: will having the cats RIGHT after the headers and the O2 bungs welded in right after the cats throw a CEL? That's what I want to know. IF it doesn't, then voila, we have a working solution to make headers in CA, barring visual inspection. 400 cell should pass sniffer, as well.

Any ideas on whether or not it will throw a CEL with that setup?

[Johal E32]

You could do ebay headers (any headers really) and dump that into OEM E46 M3 euro section 1. That takes out the first muffler and puts two cats in instead.

[Johal E32]

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=305071

[Avetiso]

You could do ebay headers (any headers really) and dump that into OEM E46 M3 euro section 1. That takes out the first muffler and puts two cats in instead.


http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=305071
Interesting... couldn't I do that to my section one to replace to muffler? That's pretty much what this guy is doing... Some good info in that thread, with reports of people passing SMOG in CA with 200 cells.

I sent the guy a lengthy PM asking for some info. Will report back if he responds, and I also invited him to join here and possibly discuss with us directly.

[Pip]

Jack is usually very responsive and has great data. 200 cell cats most likely pass but they'd need to be smokin' hot and nothing else could be wrong with the car. Not sure about the CEL due to O2 sensors etc. that has been discussed.

[Avetiso]

I'm really looking forward to his input.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[ELCID86]

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=305071
Wow, I didn't know these guys were in Stafford, VA (where I live and Bruce works). Custom-Performance.net (http://www.custom-performance.net/)

[Smolck]

200 cell cats most likely pass but they'd need to be smokin' hot

Wrap em in header wrap and do a few 0-80 blasts right before going in for testing.

[Avetiso]

Wrap em in header wrap and do a few 0-80 blasts right before going in for testing.
Is it worth it? 400 cell wouldn't really make that much of a power difference when compared to 200 cell, and you wouldn't have to do anything like wrap/heat.

Or am I wrong?

[Avetiso]

No response yet from Jack.

[derbo]

What are the stock cats cell count? 300 each?

[derbo]

http://www.e46m3blog.com/2011/05/to-catalyze-or-not-to-catalyze.html


This is a good read from a tuner motorsport guy. It pertains to the S54 but it could be useful information to you.

[Smolck]

http://www.e46m3blog.com/2011/05/to-catalyze-or-not-to-catalyze.html


This is a good read from a tuner motorsport guy. It pertains to the S54 but it could be useful information to you.

One cool thing when you don't "catalyze" like me, any a$$hat tailgater will be choking to death on my exhaust fumes. I even like to downshift and bring up the revs a bit to help them get maximum hydrocarbons!

[derbo]

LOL. unfortunately air quality in california is terrible with all people. :(

I used to run a catless turbo civic and it was fun. Cleaning up a dirty rear bumper full of soot wasn't fun though..

[Avetiso]

What are the stock cats cell count? 300 each?
Way higher, I think. The consensus seems to be 600-900, but I have no hard data.

http://www.e46m3blog.com/2011/05/to-catalyze-or-not-to-catalyze.html


This is a good read from a tuner motorsport guy. It pertains to the S54 but it could be useful information to you.
Maybe I'll shoot him an e-mail...

One cool thing when you don't "catalyze" like me, any a$$hat tailgater will be choking to death on my exhaust fumes. I even like to downshift and bring up the revs a bit to help them get maximum hydrocarbons!
Shoot. Lot's of people in CA need that!

LOL. unfortunately air quality in california is terrible with all people. :(

I used to run a catless turbo civic and it was fun. Cleaning up a dirty rear bumper full of soot wasn't fun though..
Yeah... I don't want to do that. :rofl

[Crickett]

Terribly interesting thread, fellas! I’m very interested to see how a stock ZHP exhaust with eBay headers and a euro-style catted section 1 (with O2 sensors) would shake out. If that results in no CEL and passing smog sniffers, I may just move headers up my mod list!

[johnrando]

Def awaiting results. I'm thinking I'd rather do it w/street legal cats for less hassle.

[Avetiso]

No response yet. Glimmer of hope, however. This is usually discussed with respect to M3's, and I've noticed that all catted exhausts have their O2 sensors after cats with no codes. The cats are usually farther downstream, as well. I think we should be fine in terms of keeping CEL off if we weld in 400 cell cats, which means that at this point, it's all about inspection...

[derbo]

It would also mean you need a custom exhaust as most non-M exhausts are from "section0"

I would hate to modifiy my TSE3 for header and section 1 cats...

[Avetiso]

It would also mean you need a custom exhaust as most non-M exhausts are from "section0"

I would hate to modifiy my TSE3 for header and section 1 cats...
Yeah, at this point, I'm pretty sure custom fabrication is needed. For me, I'd install the cats right after the headers, probably. I would cut the flange off the exhaust coming up to the headers, along with the needed about of pipe, and would weld that flange onto one side of the cats, and weld the other side into the pipe.

Or you could do it further downstream. That would work, too. I've heard stories that further downstream would throw CEL because the exhaust cools off too much, but I have no threads or data on the subject.

EDIT: However, your TSE3 would probably wake the dead with headers, so you'd probably end up removing it either way. I was thinking eBay headers, cats, and BMW Performance muffler. It would be original, IMO. Never heard it before. Maybe a res delete.

[derbo]

Headers + Cats + TSE3 has never been done before..however it means I would need to hack the TSE3..

I would make a custom header /extension flange that can use M3 section 1 euro cats. maybe use a section 2 M3 then custom section 3 for non-M

[Avetiso]

Headers + Cats + TSE3 has never been done before..however it means I would need to hack the TSE3..

I would make a custom header /extension flange that can use M3 section 1 euro cats. maybe use a section 2 M3 then custom section 3 for non-M
Finding a euro section one won't be easy... Modifying a stock exhaust would be so much easier. I actually have an exhaust I'm selling to a guy from the bay from my 330i for $85...

Are M3 pipes bigger?

[LivesNearCostco]

Didn't someone in the family try the Magnaflow high-flow manifolds with cats? I see on the auto-anything site they sell a Federal (49-state) compliant header for $1320 ($662 * 2), but the California-compliant one is $1604 ($802 * 2). The design looks like it's not as good as headers but would flow better than stock. But it's expensive, even the 49-state one.
http://www.autoanything.com/exhausts-mufflers/61A4168A0A0.aspx

California: Magnaflow 56287 front, 56288 rear
Federal (49-state): Magnaflow 50287 front, 50288 rear

Anyone know if the 49-state cats would pass sniffer test in California? Of course it's a hypothetical question, they can't actually be shipped to someone in California, but you know, if you put them on a car in Virginia then someone in California bought the car, would it pass sniffer?

[Avetiso]

Didn't someone in the family try the Magnaflow high-flow manifolds with cats? I see on the auto-anything site they sell a Federal (49-state) compliant header for $1320 ($662 * 2), but the California-compliant one is $1604 ($802 * 2). The design looks like it would flow better than stock but it's expensive...
http://www.autoanything.com/exhausts-mufflers/61A4168A0A0.aspx

There is this other Mafia thread, but it's not really about California-Legal
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?6674-High-flow-Catalytic-Converter-options
:( Even at half of the price of those, I don't think I'd do it. I'd rather do reinstall/installs. $1,600 is ludicrous.

[UdubBadger]

Well...

To pass the ECU portion of the test, you need either the LC-1 or enough people who want to tune without CEL for the headers to pay a premium to jerry (my boss) to buy the coding needed to do it.

To pass smog, yes you need at least 200 Cell or 400 cell high flow cars. Magnaflow makes some good ones, also other options out there of smaller designs to fit in tight spots. If you run LC1 to post cat you'll clear the CEL so don't worry about that.

It's pointless to hollow out stock headers, visually it's easier to weld in at bottom of header connection. Visual wouldn't know the difference is my guess.





Goin' HAM mobile

[UdubBadger]

The nice thing is if you buy the coding, youll get the extra power from the tune to go with it.


Goin' HAM mobile

[derbo]

I'm going to give up on headers for the M54 and just get an S54 with Euro headers/cats

[Hermes]

332i FTW!

[Crickett]

Ok, exhaust n00b question, but what’s wrong with using eBay headers, custom-fab cats into stock ZHP section 1 (or custom-adapted M3 euro section 1), then the rest of the stock ZHP exhaust?

[Smolck]

Ok, exhaust n00b question, but what’s wrong with using eBay headers, custom-fab cats into stock ZHP section 1 (or custom-adapted M3 euro section 1), then the rest of the stock ZHP exhaust?

I sort of wonder that myself. The thought is that in the peoples republic of California, it still won't pass their stupid smog restrictions. I mean you are in Nancy and Diane's backyard, not much you can do there except same sex marriage.

[Crickett]

I sort of wonder that myself. The thought is that in the peoples republic of California, it still won't pass their stupid smog restrictions. I mean you are in Nancy and Diane's backyard, not much you can do there except same sex marriage.

So, physically that should all work? After posting my question, I did find out that the ZHP exhaust is a single piece after the headers (I know, search FIRST … ), so there aren’t really separate “sections”, but if you’re already going to be cutting and custom fabbing, I wouldn’t think that’d be an issue.


iPhone 5. Tapatalk 2. Aww yeeeah.

[derbo]

Ok, exhaust n00b question, but what’s wrong with using eBay headers, custom-fab cats into stock ZHP section 1 (or custom-adapted M3 euro section 1), then the rest of the stock ZHP exhaust?



Physically there is nothing wrong with this. It should pass the sniffer easily.

California requires that the cats do not more more than 6inches from the original location. This means this setup will immediately fail visual. The other concern is if the CEL pops up because of the cats moved so far downstream. California also requires a OBDII monitor check which would result in a fail if the CEL was on.

And you are right, the non-M exhaust is 1-piece from the exhaustmanifold and beyond. The M3 has 3 sections to the their exhaust.



Honestly the best solution I think is to get a custom header built to M3 euro section 1. Use a M3 section 2 and a custom non-M section 3.

[LivesNearCostco]

Derbo is right about the rules, but the visual inspection is often quick. They open the hood, make sure you aren't missing anything obvious, and check if you have a gas cap. Maybe the tech will glance under the car to see if you have cats, or something that looks like cats. A by-the-book tech might look to see if your manifolds have cats, if the computer tells him the E46 has them in the manifolds. Only a tech one cares more than average would notice headers with relocated cats and declare them visually non-compliant, assuming you pass the sniffer.

However the CEL is tougher. The smog machines plugs into your OBD-II port so even if the tech is willing to overlook the CEL light, the machine will catch it.

On my next smog check, which might be March 2014, I'll see if the tech notices my aFe intake. While it's got a CARB compliance number and doesn't affect smog testing, it is non-stock so I'm curious if the tech mentions it.

I had given up on getting catless headers for performance, but hearing Smolck's story about clogged cats, I wonder... my car behaves pretty well but seems a little down on the power and dynos lower than I expected--it was 200 RWHP with Shark tune and pulleys; I would have expected ~210 RWHP.

[johnrando]

The smog place I go to has different tech every time, and they barely do the visual. They are just checking boxes going through their process. They do it, but it's cursory. It's a nice BMW and so they aren't thinking, "fail". They just glance to make sure things are there... I'd think for the most part you'd pass visual in my experience.

[Avetiso]

Well...

To pass the ECU portion of the test, you need either the LC-1 or enough people who want to tune without CEL for the headers to pay a premium to jerry (my boss) to buy the coding needed to do it.

To pass smog, yes you need at least 200 Cell or 400 cell high flow cars. Magnaflow makes some good ones, also other options out there of smaller designs to fit in tight spots. If you run LC1 to post cat you'll clear the CEL so don't worry about that.

It's pointless to hollow out stock headers, visually it's easier to weld in at bottom of header connection. Visual wouldn't know the difference is my guess.





Goin' HAM mobile
Seth, is there any reason having the cats right after the headers, and have the O2 bungs there, would throw a CEL? I know the LC1 is a great thing, but I can't find an answer as to why it would throw a CEL if the cats are right after the headers.

Why do I need the LC1?

The nice thing is if you buy the coding, youll get the extra power from the tune to go with it.


Goin' HAM mobile
Any idea on pricing?

[Avetiso]

I'm going to give up on headers for the M54 and just get an S54 with Euro headers/cats
If we figure this out, I know I will be hearing from you again. :rofl

Ok, exhaust n00b question, but what’s wrong with using eBay headers, custom-fab cats into stock ZHP section 1 (or custom-adapted M3 euro section 1), then the rest of the stock ZHP exhaust?
This is exactly what I proposed in OP, that we install cats right after the headers, along with O2 bungs. The question is the CEL. Will that setup throw a CEL?

So, physically that should all work? After posting my question, I did find out that the ZHP exhaust is a single piece after the headers (I know, search FIRST … ), so there aren’t really separate “sections”, but if you’re already going to be cutting and custom fabbing, I wouldn’t think that’d be an issue.


iPhone 5. Tapatalk 2. Aww yeeeah.
I don't mind fab work at all. OEM exhausts are dirt cheap.

Physically there is nothing wrong with this. It should pass the sniffer easily.

California requires that the cats do not more more than 6inches from the original location. This means this setup will immediately fail visual. The other concern is if the CEL pops up because of the cats moved so far downstream. California also requires a OBDII monitor check which would result in a fail if the CEL was on.

And you are right, the non-M exhaust is 1-piece from the exhaustmanifold and beyond. The M3 has 3 sections to the their exhaust.



Honestly the best solution I think is to get a custom header built to M3 euro section 1. Use a M3 section 2 and a custom non-M section 3.
This is a good idea in the sense that it still looks OEM, but with your cats that far down stream, wouldn't you get a CEL? You'd have to get a LC1 at that point.

Derbo is right about the rules, but the visual inspection is often quick. They open the hood, make sure you aren't missing anything obvious, and check if you have a gas cap. Maybe the tech will glance under the car to see if you have cats, or something that looks like cats. A by-the-book tech might look to see if your manifolds have cats, if the computer tells him the E46 has them in the manifolds. Only a tech one cares more than average would notice headers with relocated cats and declare them visually non-compliant, assuming you pass the sniffer.

However the CEL is tougher. The smog machines plugs into your OBD-II port so even if the tech is willing to overlook the CEL light, the machine will catch it.

On my next smog check, which might be March 2014, I'll see if the tech notices my aFe intake. While it's got a CARB compliance number and doesn't affect smog testing, it is non-stock so I'm curious if the tech mentions it.

I had given up on getting catless headers for performance, but hearing Smolck's story about clogged cats, I wonder... my car behaves pretty well but seems a little down on the power and dynos lower than I expected--it was 200 RWHP with Shark tune and pulleys; I would have expected ~210 RWHP.
I passed with my aFe.

The smog place I go to has different tech every time, and they barely do the visual. They are just checking boxes going through their process. They do it, but it's cursory. It's a nice BMW and so they aren't thinking, "fail". They just glance to make sure things are there... I'd think for the most part you'd pass visual in my experience.
I agree with both JR and Costco about the visual inspection. It's usually quick, really quick. I don't think it's that big of an issue. Even though CA legislation is super strict, it's the workers that have to enforce it, and they usually don't do it.

[johnrando]

They are the TSA of SMOG. :rofl

[Avetiso]

They are the TSA of SMOG. :rofl

Hahaha, truth.

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[wertyu78]

Yeah, at this point, I'm pretty sure custom fabrication is needed. For me, I'd install the cats right after the headers, probably. I would cut the flange off the exhaust coming up to the headers, along with the needed about of pipe, and would weld that flange onto one side of the cats, and weld the other side into the pipe.

Or you could do it further downstream. That would work, too. I've heard stories that further downstream would throw CEL because the exhaust cools off too much, but I have no threads or data on the subject.

EDIT: However, your TSE3 would probably wake the dead with headers, so you'd probably end up removing it either way. I was thinking eBay headers, cats, and BMW Performance muffler. It would be original, IMO. Never heard it before. Maybe a res delete.

In for answers here! I run f1 autohaus headers, magnaflow mid section, and bmw performance in the back. I move to LA in April. NEED TO PASS SMOG!

[wertyu78]

The nice thing is if you buy the coding, youll get the extra power from the tune to go with it.


Goin' HAM mobile

I'd pay for a tune that allows me to pass CA smog OBD2 and gain some ponies. Why don't you ask your boss about this and provide us with pricing and a minimum amount of people needed...... I'm ready.

[wsmeyer]

In for answers here! I run f1 autohaus headers, magnaflow mid section, and bmw performance in the back. I move to LA in April. NEED TO PASS SMOG!

Aren't you in LA now?

[wertyu78]

Aren't you in LA now?

I was just recently


Sent from my iPhone

[derbo]

CARB is terrible. A lot of manufacturers hate that California is running the show. In order to be 50-state legal, it would need to pass California's strict standards. If is passes California, the parts are 50-state legal most likely.

BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) send in secret smoggers with cars with violations that would only fail visual. This could be a cracked vacuum line or EVAP disconnected to even improper CARB approved parts (ie. Intakes, Cats, etc). These secret shoppers help BAR remove certification to Smog shops that are doing the dirty or not doing a proper job. With this kind of fear, the technicians usually are more keen to looking through the car to make sure it is passing. There is a big book that lists all the information for each car's emission equipment and where it is located. I've seen it used numerous times when my friend's technician is unfamiliar with the vehicle that is being tested. With that in mind, its not too hard to get overlooked if it looks factory like. If it doesn't during the routine check (ie. weird looking welds) the technician may research in the book or the computer to see more information on the particular vehicle. At this point, the biggest fear is how well the technician is trained in E46s. Most of them I met in my area know the cats are ALL on the manifold and that they should not be downstream in section 1 of the exhaust.

The AFE intake does have a CARB E.O. sticker when ordered new, so it shouldn't affect the car from passing at all.

All n All, if you have a friend in the SMOG industry and the car can pass smog, they usually will look the blind eye and let you pass since it does pass the sniffer and OBDII test.






Dario,

I'm not sure what happens when cat along with the oxygen sensors are relocated to section 1. From what I have read, many M3 owners have section 1 w/ modified cats and stock software. This setup can pass CA smog sniffer and readiness codes. However visual will fail if the technician is a -bythebook tech. The tunes that remove the post-cat O2 sensor will automatically fail as the sensor would not be present in the readiness code memory.

Honestly I would just suck it up, get headers, and modify the exhaust you have in the section 1 (closer to the exhaust). Then modify exhaust to bolt up to section 1.




Passed with no problems at all.

OEM Euro Headers - part# 11627833500 / 11627833501
OEM Euro Cats - part# 18307832488
Stock Section 2
Stock Muffler
ESS Euro Tune

I asked Roman to leave the post cat o2 sensors in the on/ready position because I knew I would eventually have to pass CA Emissions testing. I never threw any codes/lights with the headers and cats, which I have had on for 2 years, and never threw any codes after the ESS tune, which I have had for about 1 year.

I assume that I would have passed with an aftermarket section 2 and/or muffler as well, so for those that are worried about getting a tune and still needing to pass emissions testing, just make sure to leave the post cat o2 sensors on and get yourself a nice set of hi-flow cats (200 or 400 cell)

[johnrando]

Good points Derek. The counter to that is that BMW's around here are a dime a dozen. A relatively late model in good shape would likely not get a very detailed scrutiny. While I don't think so, but the flip side could be that they've seen so many, they'd recognize something different. As stated, I doubt that's so much the case.

[derbo]

Most definitely JR!

Most technicians I know here, will glance for the exhaust manifold cats and glance at the bottom of the car. However that means their first glance will fail the car visually if they see the headers.


Dario's best bet is to befriend a smog technician that will waive the visual as long as it passes OBDII and Sniffer.


2x 200cell cats that are hot as hell would do the trick. Or 400cell cats (but I wonder how much power he would lose. (Maybe make a flange on the cats portion and install a test pipe after smog)

[Avetiso]

I got a response from Jack.

"When building a custom section 1 for an e46 M3 that has aftermarket headers, I use the Magnaflow 446035 (
http://www.custom-performance.net/pr...idcategory=247)
I will pass the CA sniffer and as far as I know is CARB certified. Due to the larger size of this cat, it has to be installed at the end of section 1. The arear right off the headers is to tight (not enough clearance) to fit the cats side by side. I suspect it is the same for the 330. You would have to fit the cats further down stream similar to the an M3. If you can do that, and have the clearance, it will work."

Seems like at this point, it's just a visual in the way.

EDIT: I'm gonna go under my parts car and see what the clearance is like...

[derbo]

clearance is tight in that area due to a transmission.. I would follow the BMW Euro design and extend your Oxygen sensor wiring.

[Avetiso]

Okay then. That's the plan.

eBay headers
400 cell cats welded into section "one" similar to M3
extend O2 sensors

Hope it passes smog.

[UdubBadger]

Seth, is there any reason having the cats right after the headers, and have the O2 bungs there, would throw a CEL? I know the LC1 is a great thing, but I can't find an answer as to why it would throw a CEL if the cats are right after the headers.

Why do I need the LC1?

Any idea on pricing?

No actually it's my bad, was thinking about the M3s headers.

You need an LC1 only if you want to be catless. It'll fix the CEL and pass emissions on the obdII end.


Goin' HAM mobile

[UdubBadger]

I'd pay for a tune that allows me to pass CA smog OBD2 and gain some ponies. Why don't you ask your boss about this and provide us with pricing and a minimum amount of people needed...... I'm ready.

Jerry is out of town at the moment but I can ask when he gets back.


Goin' HAM mobile

[Avetiso]

Response #2: The holes are O2 bungs - threaded and ready to go. Regarding the location of the cats and the SES light, no issues with the cats further back on the E46 M3. You may not know this, but on the Euro spec M3, the cats are located in section 1 (not in the headers like the U.S. Spec M3). The cats will heat up to full operating temperature in that location however, the amount of time it takes them to reach full operating temperature is what can through a light. But again, this has not been an issue in the M3. We have had several pass the CA emissions.

Looks like I'm ready to commit. Waiting on money.

[UdubBadger]

Good find on that info


Goin' HAM mobile

[Avetiso]

Good find on that info


Goin' HAM mobile
I hope it pays off. At this point, there is a solution.

It does, however, bank on passing a visual. That is still potential for failure. Keep your OEM cats handy.

[UdubBadger]

UPDATE

Ok so Bimmerbrakes has 3-4 more zhp headers and then they're gone forever. If you want these amazing headers go order them ASAP from their site. Because of the low quantity no more package deals are being given (wasn't my choice) so if you want the tune also, you will just have to add it separately with Eurocharged for the forum price of $300.

I am told headers are $450 shipped to CONUS. These fit PERFECTLY and I can vouch for that personally as I was the beta tester on my zhp.


Goin' HAM mobile

[derbo]

are these different from the regular M54 ones?


Dario

feel like your car should sound like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyyYmczc7sU#t=48

[Avetiso]

are these different from the regular M54 ones?


Dario

feel like your car should sound like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyyYmczc7sU#t=48
Bimmerbrakes has two version. The SS ones (which look like the eBay ones) and the GEN3, which do not.

That car sounds pretty nice, but I'm looking for a more solid sound.

[derbo]

The Gen3 headers look good. I like them alot. Too bad TSE3 + headers is too loud. :\

[UdubBadger]

The Gen3 headers look good. I like them alot. Too bad TSE3 + headers is too loud. :\

I know first hand and I had the light version


Goin' HAM mobile

[derbo]

I know first hand and I had the light version


Goin' HAM mobile

Sounds ridiculous. S54 it is. for me. ;)

[Hermes]

anybody want Euro M3 headers?

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/itsjustdaroc/DSC01241.jpg
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2071520-e46-m3-S54-Euro-headers

[derbo]

Do they fit M54 on the head side?

[alexandre]

Do they fit M54 on the head side?

Completely different design I think.

[Avetiso]

Completely different design I think.
Yeah, flanges are completely different.

[derbo]

cut off flanges put M54 flanges :D

[Avetiso]

Probably could, but SS would be cheaper. I just wish they weren't all shiny chrome.

[Pip]

Probably could, but SS would be cheaper. I just wish they weren't all shiny chrome.

Why? Gives you away?

[Pip]

anybody want Euro M3 headers?



I thought about doing euro headers since they are fairly cheap, but not sure about the EGT bung. I could get a euro section 1, but extending the EGT sensor and the cat sensors isn't on the top of my fun weekend lists.

[Avetiso]

Why? Gives you away?
Yeah. Chrome/SS screams aftermarket.

[Crickett]

UPDATE

Ok so Bimmerbrakes has 3-4 more zhp headers and then they're gone forever. If you want these amazing headers go order them ASAP from their site. Because of the low quantity no more package deals are being given (wasn't my choice) so if you want the tune also, you will just have to add it separately with Eurocharged for the forum price of $300.

I am told headers are $450 shipped to CONUS. These fit PERFECTLY and I can vouch for that personally as I was the beta tester on my zhp.


Goin' HAM mobile

BimmerBrakes E46 headers page: http://www.bimmerbrakes.com/Performance-s/1862.htm


are these different from the regular M54 ones?


Bimmerbrakes has two version. The SS ones (which look like the eBay ones) and the GEN3, which do not.


The Gen3 headers look good. I like them alot. Too bad TSE3 + headers is too loud. :\

I’m not clear on which ones are the “ZHP” headers, the “SS V2” ($399.95):
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ynatt.vuemq/v/vspfiles/photos/HDS-325-330-V2-2.jpg?1373534018 (http://www.bimmerbrakes.com/BimmerBrakes-SS-M54B25-M54B30-Performance-Headers-p/hds-325-330-v2.htm)

or the “GEN3” ($430.00):
http://www.BimmerBrakes.com//v/vspfiles/photos/GEN3-325-330-2T.jpg (http://www.bimmerbrakes.com/BimmerBrakes-GEN3-M54B25-M54B30-Performance-Header-p/gen3-325-330.htm)
:confused :dunno

[UdubBadger]

Bottom gen 3, I did the photos for it


Goin' HAM mobile

[derbo]

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8870
I remember I made a thread awhile Ago and remember Stu was not a happy camper about its qualities.


Sent from my iPad

[johnrando]

His complaint was mostly about the cats and the ease of installation due to the bolt location. If you just install it once, that shouldn't be too much of an issue, right?

[derbo]

The cats being so low is a concern for me. I wonder if they updated it to fit?

[UdubBadger]

gen3 was a damn good fit

[Smolck]

The cats being so low is a concern for me. I wonder if they updated it to fit?

I think I'd just buy some magnaflow cats (on ebay for about $77 each) and have a muffler shop weld them in to a place where they fit. This way they can have the freedom to custom make it for you. But I forget you live in Cali so that ain't happening....

[derbo]

The restrictions here are pretty terrible.

[Avetiso]

If you weld the cats into the manifold, I highly doubt anyone will ever check if they are carb cats.

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[johnrando]

Honestly, I'm so confused now with all the options I have no idea what is reasonable.

[Avetiso]

Having a new train of thought recently. Probably going to get:

eBay headers
400 cell Magnaflow cats (NOT CARB legal)

I will try to weld them into the manifold itself with the help of my pops. He's got some very extensive fab work under his belt and knows his shit.

I just wonder if it'll fit...

[UdubBadger]

It's been done, should fit


Goin' HAM mobile

[derbo]

http://www.statusgruppe.com/collections/2001-06-bmw-e46-m3/products/bmw-e46-m3-section-1-with-catalytic-converter


They make an M3 OBD2 compliant cat section 1 but legally in the wrong place :)

[Johal E32]

Having a new train of thought recently. Probably going to get:

eBay headers
400 cell Magnaflow cats (NOT CARB legal)

I will try to weld them into the manifold itself with the help of my pops. He's got some very extensive fab work under his belt and knows his shit.

I just wonder if it'll fit...

I would put the cats where your section 1 mufflers are. Essentially a copy of the Euro E46 M3.

[derbo]

Dario,

This guy is selling 300 cell Cats

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=465921

[Avetiso]

Dario,

This guy is selling 300 cell Cats

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=465921

Not a bad deal. I'll have to buy headers before cats, though. I want to know how much room I have.

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[UdubBadger]

Finally got in touch with home base. Jerry said he will offer the CEL light coding for an additional $150 per car. Should I start a new thread for that?

[derbo]

Seth,

you can probably edit your tuning thread 1st post with new information. Does the CEL Light coding allow the readiness codes to be set?

[UdubBadger]

yes that is what it will do.

[QC_ZHP]

I think my tax refund will be funding my header install. I already have a set of Bimmerbrake headers but I've just been hesitant on the install. Can someone, possibly smolck, link me to which Magnaflow cats I'd need on ebay.

I don't need to pass emissions, but I'd like to tone the sound/rasp/smell down a little. Should I be looking for 100/200/300/400 cell, etc.?

Or am I over estimating the raspiness of the setup? Hard to tell from the limited youtube videos.

[UdubBadger]

200 is a good start


Goin' HAM mobile

[derbo]

double 200cell right?

[UdubBadger]

up to you. likely yes if you want to make sure you pass.

[QC_ZHP]

up to you. likely yes if you want to make sure you pass.

Think its worth the trouble for me? I don't need to pass emissions, just looking to tone the sound and rasp down

[derbo]

Think its worth the trouble for me? I don't need to pass emissions, just looking to tone the sound and rasp down

double 200cell will help with the smell too. :)

[UdubBadger]

Might be better off with a resonated mid pipe. I never got bad smell on stock zhp exhaust.


Goin' HAM mobile