Is the ZHP the proverbial Holy Grail of motoring?

[Fried_Chicken]

I hits all the correct holy grail checkboxes.
Hydraulic steering, 6-speed manual, naturally aspirated inline 6, rear-wheel drive, performance suspension & brakes.

No turbo, no automatic, no electric steering, no start-stop, etc.


Sure it's not an m3, but for an every-day driver, this car has hit the holy grail.

[BimmerWill]

Amen!

sent from S4

[kayger12]

Yes, yes I believe it is.

Well said.

[stephenkirsh]

Ahem... Mines an auto ;)


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[Lanister]

Ahem... Mines an auto ;)


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+1

[kayger12]

Ahem... Mines an auto ;)


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+1

^ So yours are clearly the Holy Grail of autos!!! :biggrin

[johnrando]

^ So yours are clearly the Holy Grail of autos!!! :biggrin

Amen!

[Hermes]

Although I love my ZHP, the 1993 NSX has a special place in my heart

[derbo]

Although I love my ZHP, the 1993 NSX has a special place in my heart

1995 NSX-R for me. :)

[ELCID86]

Amen!
+2

[Hermes]

1995 NSX-R for me. :)

True, but we can't get those out here yet. 2020 will make 25 years

[KevinC]

I think it's close, but I'll nominate my E86 Z4MC as the holy grail. S54, no forced induction, hydraulic steering, no runflats, no iDrive, starts with a key (LAST BMW model to do so!), E46 CSL M3 brakes, raw and visceral as hell. IMHO, this is the last true M car, before BMW lost their way and started bastardizing the badge.

I really wish I'd have bought a ZHP new back in the day. It could have been - in mid-2005, I was chasing an Audi S4, and close to pulling the trigger. Then I drove one - and was sorely disappointed. The massive weight of the thing completely overwhelmed whatever benefit its sweet V8 provided, and its gas mileage was horrendous. I turned my sights on the just-being-released E90 330i. But as per usual BMW release schedule, the sedan was out first, with the coupe not to follow for another year. I flirted with the idea of snagging an E46 M3, but about fainted when I priced them out, and saw $60k+ the way I would have wanted it configured. So the E90 330i sedan started looking like a great alternative. Had I known of the existence of the ZHP option, I'd have gone that route in a heartbeat, but it was not to be. I only kept the E90 for a year and a half before trading it in on the Z4MC. Paired with my present ZHP, acquired last year, they make about as perfect a pair as a BMW enthusiast could ever ask for.

[Fried_Chicken]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FTcr2IFeg0

[danewilson77]

Great video. It's a chili pepper!

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[Smolck]

To be the Holy Grail it would need 60 more horses and LSD. But it is close.

[johnrando]

I'll take 60 more horses and an LSD.

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[Johal E32]

Although I love my ZHP, the 1993 NSX has a special place in my heart


1995 NSX-R for me. :)

SAME.

TBH, i would prefer a turbo :shifty:

[Avetiso]

I want more revs.

[az3579]

Everyone has a different definition of Holy Grail. For me, the ZHP doesn't even make the list of Holy Grail cars. Not even close.

[Smolck]

Everyone has a different definition of Holy Grail. For me, the ZHP doesn't even make the list of Holy Grail cars. Not even close.

How about Holy Grail car that I can actually afford?

[az3579]

How about Holy Grail car that I can actually afford?

lol

If you want a call a car you can actually afford a "holy grail" car, then go for it. :biggrin

[Hermes]

I want more revs.

8000rpm redline

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjbrFBE4x8A

...and loafers w/white socks ;)

[Johal E32]

^He was an amazing man and driver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g

SORRY! same vid lol

[QC_ZHP]

The ZHP is an athlete in a business suit

[kayger12]

How about Holy Grail car that I can actually afford?

Lol, exactly.

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[kayger12]

The ZHP is an athlete in a business suit

And this.

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[MiniD]

The holy grail is a 996 GT3.

[az3579]

The ZHP is an athlete in a business suit

I agree with this. Perhaps not an Olympic athlete, but definitely winning all the local championships!

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[PirateZHP]

The ZHP is an athlete in a business suit

A+ statement! Totally agree!

[johnrando]

How about Holy Grail car that I can actually afford?


Lol, exactly.

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lol. Absolutely. The Holy Grail of affordable cars.

[ELCID86]

I like it. We should Trade Mark/Copyright it!

[Hermes]

The holy grail is a 996 GT3.

I prefer my Porsche's without radiators

[Yass_ZHP]

I believe MY holy grail is an e30 M3 EVO II, but then again I would say that my ZHP is pretty close...

[johnrando]

How about Holy Grail car that I can actually afford?


Lol, exactly.

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lol. Absolutely. The Holy Grail of affordable cars.

I'm going to amend MY statement to the Holy Grail of affordable daily driver cars. :)

[derbo]

The holy grail is a 996 GT3.

I like the 997 GT3RS to replace the NSX-R as far as "availability in the USA" is concerned.

:) Too bad they are still within the $100k+ range still for a used one..


but the ZHP is an amazing daily driver. oddly I don't daily drive mine..LOL.

[cakM3]

As others have stated, I agree for daily driver duties the ZHP is probably one of the best cars made.

How mine is currently set up makes it the best daily driver I have ever owned even though I also drive my ///M.


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[webster]

993 Turbo is MY holy grail. carry on.

[Fried_Chicken]

I need to drive more older cars.
I wonder what an old porsche 911 is like.

[cakM3]

If I had to choose "the ultimate holy grail of cars", then the obvious choice for me would be this: McLaren P1 Supercar

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/Library2/McLaren-P1-7-640x426_zps2954ae96.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/Library2/McLaren-P1-9-640x426_zpsa5fd9eb8.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/Library2/McLaren-P1-6-640x426_zps10ef879f.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/Library2/McLaren-P1-2-640x426_zps15aa4aa9.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/Library2/McLaren-P1-1-640x426_zps1a6d8e74.jpg

If, for some reason, I all of a sudden came into massive amounts of money.... this is the first car I would get :)

[Hermes]

Well, if we're getting into ridiculously expensive cars now I vote on a Bugatti Type 35

http://www.grandprixhistory.org/images/t35b.jpg

[cakM3]

Well, if we're getting into ridiculously expensive cars now I vote on a Bugatti Type 35

http://www.grandprixhistory.org/images/t35b.jpg

Just sayin' JP....

[echo46]

Umm, the ZHP is game but my Holy Grail is my 2006 ZCP M3.

[ZHPWelt]

If the ZHP is a holy Grail car, Based on BMW's I own what I consider three Holy Grail BMW's :)

By Age:
1988 E30 M3
2004 330i ZHP Sedan - Auto. The Auto is the only thing that may keep this car out of the Holy Grail candidate for me. That said it's such a great daily driver.
2011 1M

[illirep]

Zhp is pretty compelling as a holy grail contender. Not many cars can provide the same driving enjoyment for the money.

[Lanister]

If the ZHP is a holy Grail car, Based on BMW's I own what I consider three Holy Grail BMW's :)

By Age:
1988 E30 M3
2004 330i ZHP Sedan - Auto. The Auto is the only thing that may keep this car out of the Holy Grail castigator for me. That said it's such a great daily driver.
2011 1M

For a daily driver, auto is the way to go, IMHO. I was born and raised in Eastern Europe, where auto cars didn't exist in the 80s and early 90s. I drove manual cars until I was 30. Then after driving an auto for 5 years, I went back to a manual and it was shocking how much extra work it took to drive it. Don't get me wrong, for any off-road driving or race track application there's no substitute for a manual. But for daily driving, I am very happy with the automatic tranny. I bet I will be even happier once I get around to getting smg paddle shifts and eurotune.

[ELCID86]

+1 and you will be!


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1).

[94jedi]

I've driven quite a few cars in my time and I must say, this car (IMO) is one of the best I've ever driven, and that includes E36/46/90/92 M3's. Sure it's not as fast as the M3's of the same chassis but it's the perfect combination of everything I need/want.

It's funny but one thing I loved about my old fox-body 5.0 mustangs was the "raw-ness" of them but they were so unrefined and clunky etc. The ZHP captures a bit of that rawness, minus all the negatives.

[terraphantm]

For a daily driver, auto is the way to go, IMHO. I was born and raised in Eastern Europe, where auto cars didn't exist in the 80s and early 90s. I drove manual cars until I was 30. Then after driving an auto for 5 years, I went back to a manual and it was shocking how much extra work it took to drive it. Don't get me wrong, for any off-road driving or race track application there's no substitute for a manual. But for daily driving, I am very happy with the automatic tranny. I bet I will be even happier once I get around to getting smg paddle shifts and eurotune.

Disagree. Even in NYC traffic I prefer manual. Just gotta time it right and you barely have to touch the gas or brake (and I hate how much pressure you have to keep on the brake to stay stopped in an auto). And I have had experience with the autos before anyone asks. Before I had my ZHP, I daily drove my mom's 330xiA for about a year (she was too sick to drive)

[QC_ZHP]

I've driven quite a few cars in my time and I must say, this car (IMO) is one of the best I've ever driven, and that includes E36/46/90/92 M3's. Sure it's not as fast as the M3's of the same chassis but it's the perfect combination of everything I need/want.

It's funny but one thing I loved about my old fox-body 5.0 mustangs was the "raw-ness" of them but they were so unrefined and clunky etc. The ZHP captures a bit of that rawness, minus all the negatives.

I agree. I loved my past Mustangs and they were fun in ways thats just not possible in the ZHP, but for an everyday performance car, the ZHP is in a league of its own.

[az3579]

Disagree. Even in NYC traffic I prefer manual. Just gotta time it right and you barely have to touch the gas or brake (and I hate how much pressure you have to keep on the brake to stay stopped in an auto). And I have had experience with the autos before anyone asks. Before I had my ZHP, I daily drove my mom's 330xiA for about a year (she was too sick to drive)

This. As ironic as it may sound, I hate sitting in traffic with a manual, but I hate sitting in traffic with an auto even more.
With a manual, I control when my car moves with the least amount of effort. For me, a clutch pedal is easier (and lighter) to operate than to have to modulate a brake pedal with an auto because I don't have to hold my foot at a weird angle to module the pedal as I do with the brake. It takes more energy for me to have to hold the brake pedal in a certain spot to crawl forward at a certain speed. Not only that, but you can't just crawl along with an auto; it goes way faster than you need to be going most of the time in stop & go traffic to be able to just crawl and never have to touch the brakes.

[Hermes]

Honestly, I can say I agree with both sides. With me it really depends on the clutch. The clutch in the E21 and 2002 (and even most newer BMW's I've driven with manuals) are very easy to operate and quite honestly pleasant to drive. Like BP stated, in stop and go traffic driving a manual can be much more effortless than dealing with modulating the brake.

On the other hand, I have bad knees and stress my body pretty hard when I'm at work. On occasion I will purposely drive my automatic cars because they are newer/more comfortable, and quite honestly it's easier to deal with one less pedal when I'm that worn out.

On a third and final note, I love driving my buddy's car:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/S38B38/C095967F-867C-4D50-90B5-FDE2C7A38112-16018-000015F14243DC2E.jpg

Being that it's an extremely modified sleeper, it has a heavy duty clutch that honestly feels like the clutch in my 7.3L delivery truck. It can become very tiresome to drive this in traffic due to how much wear and tear it puts on my knee.

Edit: now that I think about it, the Salmon Silver car would be my Holy Grail. It also has an engine note that is just as amazing as the M88 I posted earlier since this engine is the final derivative of that design, I need to see if I have a vid anywhere on my computer

[M0nk3y]

I think it's close, but I'll nominate my E86 Z4MC as the holy grail. S54, no forced induction, hydraulic steering, no runflats, no iDrive, starts with a key (LAST BMW model to do so!), E46 CSL M3 brakes, raw and visceral as hell. IMHO, this is the last true M car, before BMW lost their way and started bastardizing the badge.

I really wish I'd have bought a ZHP new back in the day. It could have been - in mid-2005, I was chasing an Audi S4, and close to pulling the trigger. Then I drove one - and was sorely disappointed. The massive weight of the thing completely overwhelmed whatever benefit its sweet V8 provided, and its gas mileage was horrendous. I turned my sights on the just-being-released E90 330i. But as per usual BMW release schedule, the sedan was out first, with the coupe not to follow for another year. I flirted with the idea of snagging an E46 M3, but about fainted when I priced them out, and saw $60k+ the way I would have wanted it configured. So the E90 330i sedan started looking like a great alternative. Had I known of the existence of the ZHP option, I'd have gone that route in a heartbeat, but it was not to be. I only kept the E90 for a year and a half before trading it in on the Z4MC. Paired with my present ZHP, acquired last year, they make about as perfect a pair as a BMW enthusiast could ever ask for.

You forgot to add that the E85/6 Z4M was ONLY offered in a manual ;)

TBH I really think the E82 M Sport Package is the modern ZHP. Granted, it doesn't have a bump in power, but it drives just like my E46. Has cute bumpers (actually 135i front/rear bumpers). Especially with the N52, basically the modern bombproof engine.



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[Mike2003ZHP]

My ZHP has been the perfect car. Form, Function, Fun. That's makes if F'ing perfect. Nimble and quick, reasonable economy, flashy but not too flashy. My daily driver for almost 11 years.

[BRGcoopahS]

I'd say the ZHP is the holy grail of non-M BMW's. Or the holy grail of a good daily.

[prowlerflyer]

As mentioned by several, holy grail is so hard to define. That said as far a 4 door sedans go, the ZHP is nirvana. Solid structure, chassis balance, decent power, not overly artificial in feel or control, still a certain level of simplicity, and relative reliability. The only other close 4 door to me is the E39 M5. Although as much as I love the E39 M5, to DD drive one is no practical unless you have deep pockets.

My real grail would only have 2 doors and probaby be a Porsche. I really miss my S2 as a DD. So much more superior to a E30 M3, surprising they are not compared more often.

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