Trying to free sticking oil control rings in my ZHP

[Smolck]

I am cross posting this from Bimmerfest because it is apparently a common issue on the M54b30 which all of our ZHP's have. If you all have any other tricks, I am game. I have poured things in my oil I never thought I would. Or if you ever thought "hey, I wonder what this would do?" I am willing to try it. My engine is going to get replaced if this doesn't work anyways!

Begin crosspost:

So I am still chasing oil consumption. I now know my oil control rings are the cause after leakdown and compression tests show the engine is fine from that regard. A few months back I used Lubro Moly Pro Line engine flush and the consumption got a lot better (1qt every 1200 miles vs 1qt every 400) for a short time. Then it would go back to a qt every 400 miles. I THOUGHT it was CVV related. But a new CVV didn't help. I finally consulted a 25 year BMW master mechanic (a friend of a friend) and he said "is it a M54 3.0?" "Oh yea, that is a real common issue, the oil control rings get caked with crap over the years".

He said to do 5 oil changes with 6qts dino, 16oz of sseafoam (one bottle) and 1/2qt trans fluid. Run it 250 miles, drain and repeat for 5 cycles. He said he has had good success with this method. But, my wife and son got in their accident right in the middle of my second change and because we were down to one car, I had to dump it and go back to synthetic since we only had the one car and I was racking up 100 miles a day between hospital trips and errands and such.

So then I installed my catch can. That alone brought consumption down to about 1 quart per 750 miles.

Today, I decided to go about the routine again to see if I can get the catch can mod to give me over 1200 miles per quart. So did the Lubro Moly Flush again (directions say idle for 10 minutes, I idled for 10, fast idled at 2000rpm for 10 minutes), dumped the oil and went with Penzoil and the required seafoam/ATF concoction.

We shall see if 5 runs (1000 miles) does anything for me. After I am going to go with Castrol Syntec 5w50. I know it is heavy and not BMW spec, but I have 201k miles and change my oil around 5000 miles now. Besides, BMW doesn't recommend oil for OLD, hard worked engines so who cares.

One down side to all this, my damn driver side control arm bushing is bad. Has a small puddle of fluid in the recess and that side of my aluminum plate has some fluid on it too. For reference, they are Lemforder and have less than 40,000 miles on them.

[danewilson77]

Try AutoRx.

http://www.auto-rx.com/

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[Smolck]

I have seen the stuff a lot. Seems like it is no better or worse than the Lubro Moly. Only difference being it is a long term deal in that it stays in the engine longer. I suppose if this doesn't work I will give it a shot. But there is no technical data on the product, is only available online, and there seem to be more questions about what it actually is than answers.

I am about to the point where if this doesn't work, I'm gonna fill the engine with lawnmower oil and go do a track day. That should kill it nicely. Then I can source a new engine and install the VAC head I want.

[Smolck]

Quick update:

After 150 miles (mostly highway driving at 80mph which is about 3100rpm for me with the 3.46 diff) I have no consumption yet with my concoction and the lubro moly. Normally, after 150 highway miles, I'd be down enough to notice. Positive result so far!

[danewilson77]

Good news Smolck. Thanks for update.

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[Smolck]

Wanted to update this after today. I put 266 miles on the oil/seafoam/atf mixture. The "process" as described includes dumping this mixture every 250k miles for 5 cycles. Since the Lubro Moly works so well I decided to do a 1/2 can of that and let the car idle for 15 minutes BEFORE I dumped the oil. When I did, I found the below picture. That is some nasty looking oil for sure for only 266 miles. Now I realize that color isn't always the best way to tell, but cmon, after 266 miles it should look better than this. I should also note that my catch can is less full than previous 250 mile runs. So less "blowby" gasses are collecting in the can so that means it is sealing better......I hope.

Anyways, refilled it with 6qts oil (this time Penzoil dino HIGH MILEAGE 5w30), 1 can seafoam and 1/2qt ATF. Tomorrow I have to drive to Tuscaloosa and back for work so that will put roughly 200 miles on my car. This is getting expensive, but hoping the end result is much less oil consumption.

One thing I did notice, I have a SEVERE oil pan or rear main seal leak. There are droplets hanging off my bellhousing. So it is possible some of my heavy consumption is actually a leak. That makes me feel a little better.

Anyways, onward and forward! I'll have 3 "cycles" of this completed by Monday.

[Lanister]

Are you sure you don't have a 2-stroke motor? :)

Glad to hear things are looking up! I'm not sure if you paid attention but engines that burn oil typically also blow blue smoke. Have you noticed any?

[rdhamill]

that's nastier than what comes out of my old Cummins powered truck.

[Smolck]

Are you sure you don't have a 2-stroke motor? :)

Glad to hear things are looking up! I'm not sure if you paid attention but engines that burn oil typically also blow blue smoke. Have you noticed any?

The car has NEVER smoked. I redline it every time I drive it, and it NEVER coughs up any smoke at all. In the mornings when I start it, it doesn't smoke either (which if it did would indicate bad valve stem seals). The fact that the car stops using oil after the oil flush is what led me to the oil control rings as the culprit. Repeated flushing will hopefully get all the crap out once and for all. Then I am going to go to 5000k mile oil change intervals with a heavy oil (castrol 5w50 maybe?)


that's nastier than what comes out of my old Cummins powered truck.

Agreed. But I guess that means the flush and seafoam is doing it's job. That is less crap in my motor.

One puzzling thing is if you look at the valve train, you don't see any evidence things are "sludgy"....here are my cams at 174k miles........

[Lanister]

Wow that looks pretty pristine for such high mileage.

The thing that confuses me now is this; the oil control rings (as far as I know) are there to prevent oil from entering the combustion chamber and thus burn. So if your car doesn't burn oil/blow blue smoke (especially during cold starts in the morning) then perhaps the rings are not the issue since they appear to be doing their job.

I wonder how aggressive of a leak you have. Also, I'll be curious to see if your new CVV delete will make a difference since a faulty CVV has been reported to cause oil consumption.

[Smolck]

Wow that looks pretty pristine for such high mileage.

The thing that confuses me now is this; the oil control rings (as far as I know) are there to prevent oil from entering the combustion chamber and thus burn. So if your car doesn't burn oil/blow blue smoke (especially during cold starts in the morning) then perhaps the rings are not the issue since they appear to be doing their job.

I wonder how aggressive of a leak you have. Also, I'll be curious to see if your new CVV delete will make a difference since a faulty CVV has been reported to cause oil consumption.

The car burns oil, of that I am certain. It doesn't HAVE to smoke to be burning oil. The car was using a qt every 400 miles before I did anything to it. After the lubro moly flush it went 1200 miles before it needed a qt. then slowly consumption went back to 400. I am sure the rings were temporarily unstuck and then slowly crapped up again.

But I am now sure I am leaking a decent amount too.

I find it comical that I will end up replacing my clutch and flywheel not because they failed (still on OEM clutch at 202k miles) but because the rear main exploded.

[danewilson77]

Thanks for update. You are breaking down and removing sludge for sure. Hopefully no harms comes to any software.

Good report. Good news.

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[Blaster3500]

I am curious to see the results of this. If you still have cats you will be amazed how much smoke they can hide. Lots of 335i guys that delete there secondary cats end up seeing lots of smoke from leaking turbo seals.

[Smolck]

Headers are on the way, we shall see if she smokes.

[Avetiso]

Headers are on the way, we shall see if she smokes.

In for power gains.

[Smolck]

In for power gains.

Me too. I really think my car has some clogging going on in the cats and removing them will bring about some extra power gains.

[Smolck]

I changed my oil again today, after about 300 miles on the oil/seafoam/atf mix I had ZERO oil useage. For me that is HUGE! Oil that came out was still dirtier looking that I would like after 300 miles, so I guess it is working. Reloaded with a new filter, 6qts Penzoil High Mileage Dino 5w30, 1 can seafoam, 1/2 qt ATF. And another 250 miles we go! Two cycles completed, three to go!

[kayger12]

I changed my oil again today, after about 300 miles on the oil/seafoam/atf mix I had ZERO oil useage. For me that is HUGE! Oil that came out was still dirtier looking that I would like after 300 miles, so I guess it is working. Reloaded with a new filter, 6qts Penzoil High Mileage Dino 5w30, 1 can seafoam, 1qt ATF. And another 250 miles we go! Two cycles completed, three to go!

Great news.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Smolck]

250 more miles and another change. More Penzoil High Mileage, seafoam, and ATF. No oil lost, oil control rings still free'd up. Didn't do a lubro moly flush before the change this time. Gonna see if it is clean enough without it, if it uses some in the next 300 mile interval, I'll do another one. I think this is actually working! One more cycle after this one will make 5 changes and roughly 1200 miles worth of running cleaners in fresh oil. If that doesn't free up those rings and decrease consumption, nothing will.

[LivesNearCostco]

This is a common problem in the Saturn S series from the 90's because the piston grooves for the oil control rings lacked drain-back holes, in some sort of GM engineering oversight. The rings would get coked up and stop scraping oil off the cylinder walls. It was fast enough to lose up to 1 quart per 1000 miles but generally not enough to make visible blue smoek.

The recommended Interwebz cure was to take out the spark plugs and pour Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) on top of every piston and let it sit overnight. Officially you're supposed to use GM Top Engine Cleaner, but nearly every FLAPS carries MMO. I did it twice and it seemed to help but the car always burned oil and still does. It burns about 1.5 quarts every 3000 miles where my BMW burns 1.5 quarts every 7500 miles. Of course now I have an oil pan gasket leak so it will consume oil faster.

[Smolck]

This is a common problem in the Saturn S series from the 90's because the piston grooves for the oil control rings lacked drain-back holes, in some sort of GM engineering oversight. The rings would get coked up and stop scraping oil off the cylinder walls. It was fast enough to lose up to 1 quart per 1000 miles but generally not enough to make visible blue smoek.

The recommended Interwebz cure was to take out the spark plugs and pour Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) on top of every piston and let it sit overnight. Officially you're supposed to use GM Top Engine Cleaner, but nearly every FLAPS carries MMO. I did it twice and it seemed to help but the car always burned oil and still does. It burns about 1.5 quarts every 3000 miles where my BMW burns 1.5 quarts every 7500 miles. Of course now I have an oil pan gasket leak so it will consume oil faster.

Thanks. Yea I read all of those Saturn threads. I've even tried MMO on the ZHP. But it wasn't enough and the car required more cleansing. I could easily live with 1.5qts per 7500.

[Smolck]

Someone asked about my plugs on bimmerfest. I posted a pic there, but thought I'd throw it up here too. I pulled them today so I could pour some solvent down into the cylinders for a full 24 hour soak. I probably didn't need this as today I did a 320 mile interstate trip (2800-3300 RPM the whole time with the 3.46 diff) and used ZERO oil. In the past, that would have cost me almost a quart. I am PUMPED! My engine is coming back from the brink of death!

Oh, plugs have 8k miles on them. 3000 of those miles have been since the catch can/solvent stuff etc. Some deposits from when it was burning oil like gas, but not too bad.

[danewilson77]

Damn. Those look pristine!

I think she's back!

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[Smolck]

Damn. Those look pristine!

I think she's back!

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH


Thanks Dane! I sure hope so. The real test will be filling her back up with regular oil, no cleaners and running it for a few thousand miles.

And I still think my cats are clogged from burning obscene amounts of oil for 100k miles. Gotta snag some headers soon.

[Smolck]

400 miles into cycle #4. ZERO oil usage. Before this I would have used a qt already.

[alexandre]

Do you think it's the increased vacuum or the seals are clean now?


iP4S + TT2

[Smolck]

Do you think it's the increased vacuum or the seals are clean now?


iP4S + TT2

I believe the oil control rings are probably pretty clean now due to the flushes and my mixture of solvents. I also believe the catch can is helping KEEP things clean by not allowing contaminants in my intake or draining into my oil pan which is why they seem to have stayed freed up. One reason I do not think the extra vacuum is doing it is because I had the catch can on the car BEFORE I went through the cleaning process and it still used oil at a rate of about 1qt per 700 miles. So the vacuum alone didn't help me much, about 250-300 miles additional is all it gave me.

I will be doing another couple hundred miles tomorrow on the interstate, I'll see what that does and if it uses any oil.

[Smolck]

250 miles on just plain oil today. No burning, not one drop. I am curently running penzoil high mileage 10w40 dino oil. Gonna run it for about 2000 miles as cleanse cycle and then back to synthetic. If your car burns more than a qt per 1000 miles, give this a try.

[danewilson77]

Thanks for update. Next update due at 300k miles.:)

[Smolck]

Thanks for update. Next update due at 300k miles.:)

Did you sell your ZHP? What's with the mini in your Sig?

[danewilson77]

Did you sell your ZHP? What's with the mini in your Sig?

The ZHP has snow on it. :shifty

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[Smolck]

Ah yes. I was about to cry. Your car is too nice to sell.

[alexandre]

Awesome. I'm not losing too much right now (about 1qt every 1500mi) and I have leaks on the rear main and the oil pan, but if it gets worse I'll definitely try that magic potion.


iP4S + TT2

[Smolck]

Awesome. I'm not losing too much right now (about 1qt every 1500mi) and I have leaks on the rear main and the oil pan, but if it gets worse I'll definitely try that magic potion.


iP4S + TT2

Two things. 1. to the post above, I also have a leaky rear main and pan gaskets, but they were only causing a negligible amount of loss. 90% of it was coked up oil rings. I'd seriously recommend the flush at least before your next oil change. You will kill your cats burning that much oil. Mine is completely clogged almost at this point and has to be replaced.

2. My car is still not using any oil. I only have about 500 miles on pure oil because of the aforementioned catlytic converter issue, but it is working well.

[Smolck]

Car is disabled (no exhaust bolted on at the moment) but before I took it apart, I logged more than 800 miles. ZERO oil consumption.

[328ioc]

Car is disabled (no exhaust bolted on at the moment) but before I took it apart, I logged more than 800 miles. ZERO oil consumption.

This is excellent news.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[alexandre]

Gonna be trying this in the spring. Purchased the first flush kit today.

11529


iP4S + TT2

[rguti153]

Interesting .mmmmm

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

[Smolck]

1000 miles, zero consumption. Even while flogging my car repeatedly with the new headers.

[rguti153]

Wow so it looks like it work ,:thumbup::thumbup: very nice


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[Smolck]

Wow so it looks like it work ,:thumbup::thumbup: very nice


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

So far so good. It has surpassed my expectations.

[Smolck]

Well, after 1100 or so miles with the straight Penzoil Dino oil (10w40) I finally have some useage......maybe.

I have driven the car hard and with headers I can see some smoke coming out the back when I am on it hard in 1st and 2nd. However, I also know my DME is running my car VERY rich with the headers and I think it is fuel smoke, not oil smoke. I also know my car has a MASSIVE leak in the rear main seal. So I am not panicking yet. And besides, it has only used about 1/4 qt in 1100 miles. Not too shabby.

However I am anxious to see if the consumption continues to worsen or if it stays at this rate. Stay tuned, it is getting interesting.....

[Smolck]

1300 miles, maybe a few more and I have some usage. About 1/2qt at this point. Not going to say it is back to using oil like before by any means, but will have to monitor the situation.

[Smolck]

Just a quick update, my car is indeed using oil again. Apparently, the "clean" rings got dirty again and have gunked up enough to allow for consumption. I used 1/2qt in the last 400 miles or so, none for the first 1100 or 1200. I plan to do another "shock" clean with the Lubro Moly engine flush and go back to synthetic oil and see what that does.

Moral: do my cleanse cycle BEFORE you get to the point mine did. If you catch it early, it will likely work well.

[Lanister]

Dude, I hope you're getting some great discounts on all the fluids. :)

[Smolck]

Dude, I hope you're getting some great discounts on all the fluids. :)

Nope, unfortunately. But the parts lady at Napa knows me by name (where I buy the Lubro Moly). She asked "are you drinking this stuff?"

[alexandre]

Nope, unfortunately. But the parts lady at Napa knows me by name (where I buy the Lubro Moly). She asked "are you drinking this stuff?"

:rofl


iP4S + TT2

[Smolck]

Just FYI, I dropped a bottle of Rislone into my car just to see what would happen. It is an oil treatment/cleaner that says you can use it at any time in your oil change cycle. It is also thicker than Marvel Mystery Oil (which is a favorite elixir on the oil forums).

It would appear that for the last 300 miles since I put it in the car, I have had minimal, if any consumption. This sort of supports my theory that my cars rings were so bad, that a normal OCI (oil change interval) allows dirt to re-stick them rather quickly. So I have more cleaning to do. I am going to go another 200 miles or so (roughly 2000 miles total) and then do another Lubro Moly flush and go back to synthetic (Castrol 5w40, yes it is BMW LL-01 approved) and see what that does. If it still gunks up in 1500 miles or so, I am going to go nuclear and use Kreen from Kano Labs.

Stay tuned, it only gets more interesting from here!

[Dave1027]

Why not try some Penzoil Platinum 5w-40? Has a load of calcium which gives it extra cleaning ability. Might also want to throw in a bottle of Lubegard BioTech.

[Pip]

I'm glad you're documenting this. History is about to be made one way or another. So many fluids going in that beast.

[Smolck]

Why not try some Penzoil Platinum 5w-40? Has a load of calcium which gives it extra cleaning ability. Might also want to throw in a bottle of Lubegard BioTech.

My local auto parts store wants $9.50 per qt for that stuff. No THANKS!

UPDATE:
I changed my oil some 400 miles ago. Before I did the change I did my usual Lubro Moly Pro Line flush. Filled with 7qts of Mobil 1 0w40 and have had ZERO usage so far. As usual, the lubro moly cleans the rings enough to let them work for a time. With Dino oil I was able to go 1200 miles with no burning. I wonder if I'll have the same result with Synthetic.

I do have a massive oil leak in my VANOS feed line, getting a replacement today. So we shall see.

[Smolck]

Another update:

1000 miles after the oil change with Mobil 1 and I have used less than 1/2qt of oil. I would almost attribute that to the leakage I know is happening. I'll probably continue to use oil only through the entire interval though, and keep close track of consumption. One thing is for sure, the Lubro Moly Flush is good stuff and does work. If you have a lower mileage ZHP with only slight consumption, I'd highly recommend this stuff once a year to help keep things clean.

[Dave1027]

Are you seeing oil on the pavement or on the belly pan? I thought that running a high crancase vacuum would pretty much eliminate leaks. Didn't you post in your catch can thread that you now have a clean intake? In other words, your CCV setup is not sucking oil?

[Smolck]

Are you seeing oil on the pavement or on the belly pan? I thought that running a high crancase vacuum would pretty much eliminate leaks. Didn't you post in your catch can thread that you now have a clean intake? In other words, your CCV setup is not sucking oil?

You can still have leaks. I know my VANOS hose is leaking, I can see it and it coats the underside of my oil pan after a week or so. So is my rear main seal. The catch can is 100% NOT sucking oil, of that I am sure.

[328ioc]

Damn Smolck. I would venture to say that your only issues now are those two leaks.

Bravo job sir.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Smolck]

Damn Smolck. I would venture to say that your only issues now are those two leaks.

Bravo job sir.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Yea, I wish it wasn't leaking so I could better gauge oil usage. But I am not ready to do my clutch yet and I won't fix the rear main till I do the clutch.

[328ioc]

Yeah that makes sense. No reason to take it apart twice.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Smolck]

After about 1500 miles I finally had to add 1qt of oil. I added 1qt of Penzoil 5w40 Euro blend. SO far, after another 500 miles since adding that, I have used less than 1/4 qt. Definitely seeing lasting improvements. The catch can and the cleansing is helping tremendously!

[Smolck]

I'm getting about 1200 miles per quart now. And I still have a few larger leaks. I really like the Penzoil 5w40. Even at $9.00 per qt, I think I'll be feeding it to the ZHP exclusively.

[alexandre]

Bump. Any updates ? :)

[Smolck]

Bump. Any updates ? :)

Yea, sorry I forgot about this thread. Sort of chronicling this in my catch can thread too.

As of 10 minutes ago, I have driven 940 miles since topping off. I have used ZERO oil. Dipstick says it is still full. Just amazing. I had done an oil change about 6000 miles ago with Mobil 1 0w40. I then changed my filter at 2500 miles. Then after using a couple qts I started using Penzoil Euro 5w40 (ferrari emblem on the bottle) and have put 3 qts in it. Since the third was added no oil has been used. I am about due for a change and will be going 100% Penzoil. Interested to see what that does.

[LivesNearCostco]

I suspected some of my oil was departing via failed CCV, but the old CCV wasn't obviously broken or failing, though I haven't pried it open to see if the diaphragm is okay. There is something dripping oil down the bottom of the oil pan, most likely oil pan gasket. Could be front or rear main seal, but gasket seems most likely.

[Smolck]

I suspected some of my oil was departing via failed CCV, but the old CCV wasn't obviously broken or failing, though I haven't pried it open to see if the diaphragm is okay. There is something dripping oil down the bottom of the oil pan, most likely oil pan gasket. Could be front or rear main seal, but gasket seems most likely.
More likely the oil filter housing gasket

[LivesNearCostco]

Possibly, but the upper part of my engine block left-side waffle area is dry, and I replaced the OFHG 4 years ago. Guess it could be leaking again--need to take out alternator some time and take a good look at it.