Tune, flash, injector, s. booster, pedal box... Or what?

[PHZ]

I have read oh so many posts over the last 5 months trying to find the best way to attempt to give my ZHP a little more "umph"

I have an unmodded 6MT.

What I am looking for/how I drive-
I drive with some spirit, but rarely get it up to 4000rpms. Occasionally it happens, but I'm trying to keep it under control. I don't want to have to buy a performance mod that requires me to go 5/6k rpm to notice the benefits, as it were. So I am looking for something that will give me more at the lower/ mid end, and make the car a bit mor fun to drive. Its my DD, and I live in SoCal, so freeway traffic is a major factor.


I have started to go sprint booster several times, but the fear of breaking "that little white pin" has kept me away.... That and not knowing if I could turn the unit on and off while driving, to keep it from getting jerky in parking lots.

Enter the pedal box, which seems to have more options (the "econo" setting seems to have a good description of how I drive ), and according to their cryptic installation video, I don't have to remove my pedal... Is this true? If so it ups its value for me, the un-mechanically (but BMW lover all the same) inclined.

Shark tunes, other ECU remapping.... Some only offer upper end gains or require engine mods... Which won't happen with my car. Bavarian autosport rep told me I would not feel the increase while driving, only maybe on a dyno..........


300is$... Low/mid pull.... Throttle response...... EASY install (It's my daily driver, so I cannot ship off my ECU)... (Able to swich setting while driving if SB or pedalbox)... No mods needed... Etc....

Any thoughts from the fam would be GREATLY appreciated.
:)

[QC_ZHP]

I've been eying the pedal box lately. As for your question, I'd suggest the SB or Pedalbox over the shark tune for your situation. Others can chime in as to which to go with.


I do recommend pushing the car up to at least 6K occasionally though. You need to feel that German engineering at work to fully appreciate this car!

[WOLFN8TR]

I would do the Sprint Booster, it really makes a difference. It makes your car "Feel" faster and more fun to drive.
The Pedal Box works just like the Sprint Booster except for more adjustability. Both hook up the same way, to the pedal itself.

If you drive around in stop and go traffic with the Sprint Booster set on Green it will not be a issue, on Red then maybe beings its more sensitive. You can change the setting anytime while driving very easily as desired.

Installing either one really isn't that hard as long as you know some tricks to getting that gas pedal off. I broke the base to my pedal and had to get a new one. The pedal is still very secure with the tab broken if you break it. They bas plates aren't that expensive anyway.

If you need some photos of the pedal bracket I have them. That way you can see exactly how to take it off.

Oh ya another reason to go with a Sprint Booster is the Sport button Mode!

[wsmeyer]

Don't base your decision on the possibility of breaking that stupid white pin. I read about it breaking and was careful trying to remove my pedal, and still broke it. The plastic is way thicker than necessary and consequently doesn't like to bend after 6+ years. The pin is what keeps the pedal from working itself off of the mount so without it it could theoretically work it's way off but I've been driving mine for several months that way and it hasn't budged. I already have the replacement part:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/35426772703/ES63878/

It's all of $10.

Back to your original question. I love my Shark Tune. The difference in oomph was very slight but the whole power delivery was so much smoother even my wife asked me what I did to the car.

I also have the PedalBox and really like that too. It drastically reduces the initial lag when you hit the throttle but because the amplification is not linear it does not feel too sensitive in the midrange of travel.

Myself, johnrando, and wofn8tr will be getting together this weekend at John's house in Manhattan Beach. If you want to come up you can drive my 6MT ZHP and check it out.

[PHZ]

I've been eying the pedal box lately. As for your question, I'd suggest the SB or Pedalbox over the shark tune for your situation. Others can chime in as to which to go with.


I do recommend pushing the car up to at least 6K occasionally though. You need to feel that German engineering at work to fully appreciate this car!

Thank you
I may take her to 6 tomorrow.......

[PHZ]

I would do the Sprint Booster, it really makes a difference. It makes your car "Feel" faster and more fun to drive.
The Pedal Box works just like the Sprint Booster except for more adjustability. Both hook up the same way, to the pedal itself.

If you drive around in stop and go traffic with the Sprint Booster set on Green it will not be a issue, on Red then maybe beings its more sensitive. You can change the setting anytime while driving very easily as desired.

Installing either one really isn't that hard as long as you know some tricks to getting that gas pedal off. I broke the base to my pedal and had to get a new one. The pedal is still very secure with the tab broken if you break it. They bas plates aren't that expensive anyway.

If you need some photos of the pedal bracket I have them. That way you can see exactly how to take it off.

Oh ya another reason to go with a Sprint Booster is the Sport button Mode!



Wolf- I'd love some pix of that!
Thank you for the info

[PHZ]

Don't base your decision on the possibility of breaking that stupid white pin. I read about it breaking and was careful trying to remove my pedal, and still broke it. The plastic is way thicker than necessary and consequently doesn't like to bend after 6+ years. The pin is what keeps the pedal from working itself off of the mount so without it it could theoretically work it's way off but I've been driving mine for several months that way and it hasn't budged. I already have the replacement part:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/35426772703/ES63878/

It's all of $10.

Back to your original question. I love my Shark Tune. The difference in oomph was very slight but the whole power delivery was so much smoother even my wife asked me what I did to the car.

I also have the PedalBox and really like that too. It drastically reduces the initial lag when you hit the throttle but because the amplification is not linear it does not feel too sensitive in the midrange of travel.

Myself, johnrando, and wofn8tr will be getting together this weekend at John's house in Manhattan Beach. If you want to come up you can drive my 6MT ZHP and check it out.

Wsmeyer
Thank you

I am afraid of breaking the pin, and not being able to drive the car (perhaps it sounds silly, but it's an unknown for me).

Do you prefer the SB or the PedalBox?

I can't swing both mod$$, could you weigh the shark vs a throttle remapped?

What day are you guys getting together?
Does your car have the Shark (would I be able to see what the SB feels like with NO Sark?)

Thanx again!

[Cabrio330]

You drive just like me - hardly ever over 4k rpm. I recommend the PedalBox heartily. I installed Dinan software on a previous 330i ZHP sedan that I have owned and was frankly disappointed. So my theory is the tunes just will not do much to change your driving experience below 4k rpm. The PedalBox, however, does. And my biggest concern about the PB - that it would make driving too jerky - was totally unfounded. I leave it on Sport mode 95% of the time, and the other 5% it is on Sport+. I don't change the +/- settings at all - I can't tell much difference with those.

And as for white pin - I assume you mean the white tab that you have to press to slide the pedal off? If so, yep - I broke mine. Of course I freaked out and order a replacement ($10-$12), but I have never installed it because the pedal isn't going anywhere!

[PHZ]

Cabrio

Thank you!
So driving with the pin broken (MT?) is no problem? No driving/ safety issues?

I assume that you can turn it on/off / change settings while you are driving?


I appreciate the info.

[Cabrio330]

No problem driving with the broken tab, and I really don't see how the pedal could slip off. I guess it is possible, but highly remote. That said, I will install the new bracket at some point. And yes, you can change the settings while driving. They tell you not to change settings while accelerating, so I have just changed while sitting at a stop sign or traffic light - no need to turn the car off, etc. And since I will seldom change any settings, I am leaving the remote tucked down between the driver seat and the center console, just in front of the seat belt receiver. I don't see any reason to "mount" the remote with the supplied Velcro.

[WOLFN8TR]

Here is some photos for ya. BTW I broke my tab taking my pedal off the first time. Knowing now where that tab is now makes it easy.

9906

9908

9907

This is the underside of the pedal, use a medium sized flat blade screwdriver. Push it in approx 1/2" until it stops. This pushes down on the white clip. Leave the screwdriver in place and then grab the bottom of the pedal and slide it off the rail.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/13/he7e4u6a.jpg

9909

Beings the base plate is so cheap and easy to replace I would buy one anyway just in case.

[PHZ]

Wolf


Many thanx!
I have emailed the distributor a couple of times with no response.... Just waiting on them............

[WOLFN8TR]

Wolf


Many thanx!
I have emailed the distributor a couple of times with no response.... Just waiting on them............

Welcome...I will be down in Cali at Johns house this weekend if you want swing by. If you need help installing one I will assist ya.

[PHZ]

Welcome...I will be down in Cali at Johns house this weekend if you want swing by. If you need help installing one I will assist ya.

That's most generous.

I won't have one by this weekend.

I'll see if I can juggle some things and make it up there to meet you guys. Sounds like a fun time.

[wsmeyer]

I am afraid of breaking the pin, and not being able to drive the car (perhaps it sounds silly, but it's an unknown for me).


That's not silly but I'll wait to change out my broken plate until this weekend so if you do come up you can see it and judge for yourself.




Do you prefer the SB or the PedalBox?!


I prefer the design of the PedalBox. It uses variable amplification to bump the signal the greatest at the beginning of pedal travel and less at the middle to end. This gives the benefit of getting off idle faster which makes it feel like better throttle response, but without the dead zone at the end of travel. Conversely, the SprintBooster uses linear amplification so that wide open throttle is actually achieved at roughly 75% pedal travel. The rest of the travel doesn't do anything. This also means that if you have the pedal floored, the throttle won't actually start to let off until you back it off to less than 75% of travel.

That being said, I have no idea if you could actually feel this during normal driving or not, but simply from a design point, I prefer the PedalBox.

If you think you might want to do the SPORT button mod though, you;d probably want the SprintBooster. It can be done with the PedalBox but it would be MUCH more difficult.




What day are you guys getting together?


That's being worked out in this thread here:
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?10749-Mini-Socal-%28LA%29-Maint-gathering-work-this-Sat-Sun-my-house




Does your car have the Shark (would I be able to see what the SB feels like with NO Shark?)


I have the Shark Tune, BMW Performance intake, and PedalBox. PedalBox has an off setting so you'd be able to check out the difference of the Shark tune, and Shark + PedalBox but not PedalBox by itself. I honestly don't recall the Shark having much effect on throttle response though.

[PHZ]

Thanx for all that info! I just found out Shark is not ca/carb legal either.

I'll try to see if I can swing this weekend.

[wsmeyer]

Thanx for all that info! I just found out Shark is not ca/carb legal either.

I don't think any of the tunes are but the Shark can be installed and uninstalled yourself whenever you want.

[PHZ]

But am I correct in thinking one has to have a battery charger or something in order to install/uninstall each time?

[az3579]

But am I correct in thinking one has to have a battery charger or something in order to install/uninstall each time?

Yes.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[danewilson77]

Yes.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

And it must be constant voltage charger. Not an automatic type.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[PHZ]

That lets me out :(

[johnrando]

Chargers are pretty cheap and small these days. To get daily performance vs. the 1 time every 2 years you'd need to make the relatively easy swap is worth it.

AFA the SB install, even with the broken clip, the pedal is secure. Ask me how I know. I did replace mine eventually. Come by this weekend, test drive w/and SB and a PB, and I'll also show you what the install is like. Once you get it, I can do the pedal part for you. It's really no biggie. In fact, just buy the extra part (that $10 white thing) and you won't have to worry about it.

BTW, you know my vote - which is apparently different that the others here. Real performance (tune) over SB/PB first, but definitely get both in my mind.

[LivesNearCostco]

My car passed California smog with Shark installed. I wouldn't tell the smog station the DME has been retuned.

I used the previous model Harbor Freight battery charger but I had to fiddle with the settings to make it supply constant voltage instead of shutting itself off whenever it thought the battery was fully charged. Set it to Start (continuous output, no auto-shutoff) but 10A charge, not 50A start.

The current HF model may not have this option. Looking at the picture, it only has 3 settings: 50A start, 10A start, 2A trickle, and a "regular/AGM" switch.


Thanx for all that info! I just found out Shark is not ca/carb legal either.
I'll try to see if I can swing this weekend.

[PHZ]

John-
Thank for the tips and offers. I'm trying to swing time for this weekend. I don't have any product yet, but thanx for offering to help install.
Will you guys still be around sunday late afternoon?

An extra item to buy and fiddle with is probably enough to push me away,... i only have about 300, so both [or shark plus another item] are most likely out of the question.

[PHZ]

My luck mine would not pass... i dont want to go a route that might spell extra work down the line... just looking for something simple

[WOLFN8TR]

I wouldn't worry about that gas pedal bracket man. Even if it breaks trying to remove it replacing it is super easy. One Allen bolts holds it on and that's it. I'm not sure when I'm heading home yet, either late Sunday or Monday sometime. Bring it by Johns and we will throw it in real quick.

[quikryptonite]

Here is what I have been thinking about for my ZHP's future. I'd love to hear some feedback about what I'm doing wrong or what I could use more efficiently. I'd like the suspension just a little tighter with some more umph from the engine.

In order of what I'd like to do:

1. Sprint Booster
2. Shark Tune
3. Performance intake (BMW or aFe Stage 1 Pro 5R)
4. TMS Performance sway bar set
5. TMS Power Pulley Kit

Thoughts?

[Crickett]

Here is what I have been thinking about for my ZHP's future. I'd love to hear some feedback about what I'm doing wrong or what I could use more efficiently. I'd like the suspension just a little tighter with some more umph from the engine.

In order of what I'd like to do:

1. Sprint Booster
2. Shark Tune
3. Performance intake (BMW or aFe Stage 1 Pro 5R)
4. TMS Performance sway bar set
5. TMS Power Pulley Kit

Thoughts?

You have a very similar plan to mine! Here's my order:
1. TMS Power Pulleys
2. BMW Perf Intake
3. Sprint Booster
4. [Shark | Eurocharged] tune
5. upgraded (TMS, M3, etc.) swaybars

I've done 1–3 already, mostly because that was the order I could afford them. If you're considering a customizable tune (e.g. Eurocharged) then I'd recommend doing the bolt-on performance enhancers (i.e. pulleys & intake) first. As for swaybars, I believe our track rats have a thread with recommendations (mostly get a better front bar, leave the rear one stock).

[johnrando]

I like that order. One minor mod maybe, the tune will take advantage of the Intake, so think about doing the intake before the tune.

[PHZ]

Been trying for 30 minutes to wedge the damn screwdriver "into clip"... With NO luck.

Someone mentioned inserting it 1/2"? It will only go in less than 1/8"

What am I doing wrong??http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/15/a9epebes.jpg

[Hermes]

Try a thinner flathead, that one looks too big

[PHZ]

FINALLY got it to pop. Found a video that suggested the BMW screwdriver was a perfect fit, and then to simply turn it to provide downward thrust. It popped off... And the pin did not break!

It took 30 minutes of trying and scraping knuckles, then another 10 to get he original harness off.

After that, installation was a snap(two actually).

Pedal clicked back into place. Wires tucked nicely along ridge where carpet meets plastic.


W. O. W.

Affine who said "just press the pedal harder"... Hasn't driven with a pedal box.

I'm amazed. It REALLY woke up the car. I never thought I had a first gear, now I do. At 3rd, it's a whole new car.
I really appreciate the 3 stages available, and the fact you can "tune" each stage with another 3 settings.

The nice thing is being able to not have to downshift to 1 as I approach a light, I can drift in 2cnd and when I apply gas it picks up like I'm in first. It seems to allow access to the meaty part of the rpm with MUCH less effort.

For me, it is a completely new driving experience. It's not jumpy ( I have not tried the upper settings, there's no need).

It does everything it advertises. Not more power, just allows you to access what you have faster with less effort.


Best thing I have done for my car. SUCH a Difference.

[johnrando]

Great news. Another convert, love it! Glad it worked out for you.

[Lanister]

Here's a question on this topic guys.

Is there a way around the speed booster through a tune? I heard that the "Eurocharge" tune modifies the throttle input sensitivity, similar to that of the speed booster but I'm not sure to what degree. So instead of spending $300 for the SB and another $300 for a tune, perhaps just one good tune is enough? My apologies if this has already been discussed in another thread. I keep reading different things and wouldn't mind getting some feedback from the experienced folks :)

[johnrando]

I'm not aware, as Eurocharged is the only one that says they do that (at least during my research) - and they were not around when I did mine. I imagine they can improve it (Seth would know the details). One thing about the SB is that it's adjustable, so even with a Eurocharged improvement, you could still add it for flexibility. But I get what you're saying, it would be nice if you didn't have to. Maybe try the Eurocharged first, and if you're happy w/it, forget the SB. Or, you could add it later as an option. BTW, I think they are under $200, and you could certainly find a used one for under that price.

[Lanister]

Thanks Jon. I'll keep it in mind. Sean (Pip) was saying that his Eurocharge has made a huge difference in response and drivability. Clearly, Eurocharge has more benefits than just the SB alone since it improves power delivery, etc. So I do wonder if that should be enough. The good thing about SB is that it's easy to remove it and sell it.

[johnrando]

YW. BTW, for sure I'd say do a tune before an SB, as that will increase your overall performance.

[PHZ]

to clarify, i installed the Pedal Box, NOT the SB.

The PB is adjustable, whereas the SB is not. That was a determining factor for me [as well as being a bit less expensive].

Jon-
Yes... one of those "I wish I would have done this sooner" type of scenarios....
I absolutely LOVE this... and i was approaching it as a huge sceptic. I was wrong. This thing actually works, and works VERY well.

Thank you for the "push" :)

[Smolck]

I keep reading these positive reviews of the pedal box, yet have a hard time spending $300 on something that doesn't add power.

[Lanister]

to clarify, i installed the Pedal Box, NOT the SB.

The PB is adjustable, whereas the SB is not. That was a determining factor for me [as well as being a bit less expensive].

Jon-
Yes... one of those "I wish I would have done this sooner" type of scenarios....
I absolutely LOVE this... and i was approaching it as a huge sceptic. I was wrong. This thing actually works, and works VERY well.

Thank you for the "push" :)

What do you mean by adjustable (RE: Pedal box)?

[PHZ]

I keep reading these positive reviews of the pedal box, yet have a hard time spending $300 on something that doesn't add power.

I hear you. That was me. Exactly.
Maybe think of it this way... It doesn't let you run at a a faster speed... It just allows you to get your top speed faster. It accelerates your "sprint".

Add power? No. Gives you faster access to your existing power? Oh my yes!!!

Measured- I sit my iPhone horizontally on the ledge created by the lower accessory door... It now falls off because of increased "pull", where it did not before unless I was super aggressive with the accelerator.


It, without fail, makes the car a LOT more fun to drive.

[PHZ]

What do you mean by adjustable (RE: Pedal box)?

It has 4 settings: off, econo, sport, and sport plus

IN ADDITION, each of those settings has 3 "levels" you can adjust. Normal, then 3 options to increase aggressiveness. So 12 setting options in all. I believe SB only has 2.


I got mine. For 260... And they said they would buy it back with no restocking fee because bones were their top selling brand option, and they were confident id like.

So I took a chance. Damn glad I did.

[Lanister]

I like the idea of adjustability but would you ever use more than one or two settings once you've found yours happy zone?

[PHZ]

I like the idea of adjustability but would you ever use more than one or two settings once you've found yours happy zone?

Maybe. I guess you hedge your bets by giving yourself 12 options to find your sweet spot instead of 2
It took me a bit to find mine, and it's not one of the standard.

Right now, I have one for SoCal traffic freeways, and one for surface streets. They are different.

[Lanister]

Good point. Thanks :)

[PHZ]

Good point. Thanks :)

My pleasure :)

I was INCREDIBLY skeptical about this type of product... i was worried that the car might be too "jumpy"... I had read posts that people were suggesting buying the automatic version f the SB because some of them thought the manual version was too aggressive. Mine is a manual, and i didn't want to make the car jumpy at low speeds/heavy traffic.

So I thought i'd be better off getting a product that had built in flexibility. I'm sure the SB is awesome.. it seems to be the more popular choice. I'm not that aggressive of a driver, so the full range of options [plus the buy back and lower price] were a no brainer for me.

I hope this helps.

One more time. THE CAR IS SOOOO MUCH MORE RESPONSIVE AND FUN TO DRIVE. I don't need more oomph above 4500/5000 rpm, as i don't spend much time there... and most of the "power" additives seem to add to the top area... so this worked out PERFECT for cautious driving little old me :)

[johnrando]

I knew you meant the Pedal Box, I just used SB as a generic term. I should have been more clear. BTW, the SB is adjustable, it has 3 settings. It's just not as adjustable as the PB.

[johnrando]

I hear you. That was me. Exactly.
Maybe think of it this way... It doesn't let you run at a a faster speed... It just allows you to get your top speed faster. It accelerates your "sprint".

Add power? No. Gives you faster access to your existing power? Oh my yes!!!

Measured- I sit my iPhone horizontally on the ledge created by the lower accessory door... It now falls off because of increased "pull", where it did not before unless I was super aggressive with the accelerator.


It, without fail, makes the car a LOT more fun to drive.

This

[danewilson77]

I hear you. That was me. Exactly.
Maybe think of it this way... It doesn't let you run at a a faster speed... It just allows you to get your top speed faster. It accelerates your "sprint".

Add power? No. Gives you faster access to your existing power? Oh my yes!!!

Measured- I sit my iPhone horizontally on the ledge created by the lower accessory door... It now falls off because of increased "pull", where it did not before unless I was super aggressive with the accelerator.


It, without fail, makes the car a LOT more fun to drive.

iPhone dyno FTW!

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[WOLFN8TR]

Guys keep an eye out for Sprint Boosters on eBay. Used ones pop up here and there for around $100-$200. I got mine for $170 shipped, best $170 I spent on the ZHP!

[Lanister]

:eeps

[PHZ]

I knew you meant the Pedal Box, I just used SB as a generic term. I should have been more clear. BTW, the SB is adjustable, it has 3 settings. It's just not as adjustable as the PB.

Jon- You are correct. I thought i mentioned that in my posts, but may have forgotten. :)

[PHZ]

iPhone dyno FTW!

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

i'm a big fan of the iPhone dyne. highly technical results... mathematically precise. ;)

[stephenkirsh]

Sprint booster? Does it really make that big of a change? I've never heard of it until this thread.

Does it do much on the autos boxes?

[danewilson77]

Yeah. It's good. You will not be disappoint.

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[johnrando]

Sprint booster? Does it really make that big of a change? I've never heard of it until this thread.

Does it do much on the autos boxes?

Absolutely. We have a whole separate thread on it.

[PHZ]

Sprint booster? Does it really make that big of a change? I've never heard of it until this thread.

Does it do much on the autos boxes?

There is also the Pedal Box [the one that I purchased]. hey both basically do the same thing... I know Jon has an auto and [I think?] the SB?

[JKO_ZHP]

My friend with an E36 M3/E39 M5 talked me out of the sprint booster, it finally hit me that it was like paying extra to have a mini sport button that the M's have but it's not adding any power, just makes you believe that you do because you feel differently.

With $300 you can get a brand-new intake that will increase your power by a little and you (as well as others) will be able to hear a big difference. K&N, aFe, Injen, etc.
Or replace the belts/pulleys and free up some lost power from having old ones, assuming they are factory still.

Just my 0.02.

I would have gotten the Shark months ago if I had a manual though.

[Lanister]

Does auto somehow negate the benefits of Shark tune?

[JKO_ZHP]

Does auto somehow negate the benefits of Shark tune?

I can't find the thread right now but a member on another forum had an auto E46, a ZHP if I remember correctly, and Sharked it. His testimony was that it did NOT raise the redline and when he contacted Conforti or TMS or whoever, they confirmed that it does not, and that the benefits explained were reserved for manuals only.

[danewilson77]

I can't find the thread right now but a member on another forum had an auto E46, a ZHP if I remember correctly, and Sharked it. His testimony was that it did NOT raise the redline and when he contacted Conforti or TMS or whoever, they confirmed that it does not, and that the benefits explained were reserved for manuals only.

The Shark FAQ at TMS will answer these questions.

It's not a toy, it's a Droid > Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[johnrando]

My friend with an E36 M3/E39 M5 talked me out of the sprint booster, it finally hit me that it was like paying extra to have a mini sport button that the M's have but it's not adding any power, just makes you believe that you do because you feel differently.

With $300 you can get a brand-new intake that will increase your power by a little and you (as well as others) will be able to hear a big difference. K&N, aFe, Injen, etc.
Or replace the belts/pulleys and free up some lost power from having old ones, assuming they are factory still.

Just my 0.02.

I would have gotten the Shark months ago if I had a manual though.

Sure, if you have an M you don't need it. I still highly recommend it for a non-M. Jonathan, just drive my car with and without it. I got an AA tune, perf intake, pulleys, fan delete, exhaust disa, vanos... blah blah blah.... ALL the little things you can do on our cars to add power outside of FI or headers. The SB (in my case) or PB still make a HUGE difference. Yes, it's kind of like the "sport" button on the M, which is why I added the sport button mod. The M sport button does more, but the SB is the next best thing for throttle responsiveness.

As for shark, I recall it USED to not work for auto, but I think it's been updated. As Dane says, check w/them. The Eurocharged, AA tune and others def work for auto.

[WOLFN8TR]

Sure, if you have an M you don't need it. I still highly recommend it for a non-M. Jonathan, just drive my car with and without it. I got an AA tune, perf intake, pulleys, fan delete, exhaust disa, vanos... blah blah blah.... ALL the little things you can do on our cars to add power outside of FI or headers. The SB (in my case) or PB still make a HUGE difference. Yes, it's kind of like the "sport" button on the M, which is why I added the sport button mod. The M sport button does more, but the SB is the next best thing for throttle responsiveness.

Auto guy checking in and I approve of the above statement!

[stephenkirsh]

My friend with an E36 M3/E39 M5 talked me out of the sprint booster, it finally hit me that it was like paying extra to have a mini sport button that the M's have but it's not adding any power, just makes you believe that you do because you feel differently.

With $300 you can get a brand-new intake that will increase your power by a little and you (as well as others) will be able to hear a big difference. K&N, aFe, Injen, etc.
Or replace the belts/pulleys and free up some lost power from having old ones, assuming they are factory still.

Just my 0.02.

I would have gotten the Shark months ago if I had a manual though.

That's my thinking at this time, too. My car is bone stock, so adding a booster button is low priority.

[stephenkirsh]

I can't find the thread right now but a member on another forum had an auto E46, a ZHP if I remember correctly, and Sharked it. His testimony was that it did NOT raise the redline and when he contacted Conforti or TMS or whoever, they confirmed that it does not, and that the benefits explained were reserved for manuals only.

That's news to me, and I've read a lot about the shark. Doesn't mean it's wrong, though.

Who really needs a 7k redline, though? I can't imagine it does much over the 6800 redline anyway.


--edit--
Looks like this forum doesn't mash together back to back posts :(

[JKO_ZHP]

Sure, if you have an M you don't need it. I still highly recommend it for a non-M. Jonathan, just drive my car with and without it. I got an AA tune, perf intake, pulleys, fan delete, exhaust disa, vanos... blah blah blah.... ALL the little things you can do on our cars to add power outside of FI or headers. The SB (in my case) or PB still make a HUGE difference. Yes, it's kind of like the "sport" button on the M, which is why I added the sport button mod. The M sport button does more, but the SB is the next best thing for throttle responsiveness.

As for shark, I recall it USED to not work for auto, but I think it's been updated. As Dane says, check w/them. The Eurocharged, AA tune and others def work for auto.


From TMS' site, it says with the Shark, the ZHP gains +14 HP @ 6,400 RPM and +11 torque @ 4,100 RPM. Rev limit is increased for the manuals only - this probably will never change since the Shark cannot change all of the software that auto transmissions have that keeps it lower. The person I mentioned before dedicated a thread to his experiences after he installed it in his auto - there was a power gain, just no raised redline.

I don't doubt that the sprint booster makes you faster than a non-SB'd car, I'm just saying that it does not add power, which is the reason I would put that $300 towards a Shark or AA tune. Because I'm thinking a Shark or AA-tuned auto ZHP would outrun the exact same one with only the sprint booster while having both (like yours) would put you ahead both since the SB would deliver the power sooner and the tune will keep it further.

[Avetiso]

That's news to me, and I've read a lot about the shark. Doesn't mean it's wrong, though.

Who really needs a 7k redline, though? I can't imagine it does much over the 6800 redline anyway.


--edit--
Looks like this forum doesn't mash together back to back posts :(
If it can keep you from shifting on a track, it's very, very valuable. Not only that, most people don't shift at exactly 6800, they usually shift a bit early. With a 7000 redline, that can be delayed a little bit more.

I have always been interested in getting more revs outta my car. I'd love to see if 7500 is possible without too much engine work.

[JKO_ZHP]

That's news to me, and I've read a lot about the shark. Doesn't mean it's wrong, though.

Who really needs a 7k redline, though? I can't imagine it does much over the 6800 redline anyway.


--edit--
Looks like this forum doesn't mash together back to back posts :(

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48560
Found it.
So it looks like at $300+, the Shark will only make the auto E46s slightly faster than stock, but keep the same redline limit.

[johnrando]

From TMS' site, it says with the Shark, the ZHP gains +14 HP @ 6,400 RPM and +11 torque @ 4,100 RPM. Rev limit is increased for the manuals only - this probably will never change since the Shark cannot change all of the software that auto transmissions have that keeps it lower. The person I mentioned before dedicated a thread to his experiences after he installed it in his auto - there was a power gain, just no raised redline.

I don't doubt that the sprint booster makes you faster than a non-SB'd car, I'm just saying that it does not add power, which is the reason I would put that $300 towards a Shark or AA tune. Because I'm thinking a Shark or AA-tuned auto ZHP would outrun the exact same one with only the sprint booster while having both (like yours) would put you ahead both since the SB would deliver the power sooner and the tune will keep it further.

Absolutely agree that it doesn't add power. I've definitely said many times (thus agreeing with you) to go for a tune first as that's real added power (albeit not much), then the SB/PB is icing on the cake.

[Hermes]

Personally I don't see a point in a raised redline as peak power is around 6000rpm. Also, long periods over 6000rpm causes a harmonic that is believed to be the reason for why the oil pump nut backs off. I rarely go to redline on my cars, but attempt to shift just after the power band starts to drop off.

The only way I see to truly change your car in order to benefit from a different power band/raised redline are extensive internal engine changes (camshafts, compression, stroke modifications, etc).

For example, my M05B20 stock has a 121 head, 264 grind, 8.5:1 CR - has a 6400rpm redline and about 100hp peak. My new engine will have an E12 head (bigger valves), 284 grind, 10:1 CR pistons, and a M10B20 block (13lbs lighter). I could've gone with a hotter cam but that would involve modifying my pistons which I don't feel like doing. I could've also done a S14 crank mod to get to 2.3L but I'm not looking to spend that kind of money on the engine (I'm already fairly deep into it). Once built and installed I will then have around 165hp and a 6800rpm redline.

[PHZ]

My friend with an E36 M3/E39 M5 talked me out of the sprint booster, it finally hit me that it was like paying extra to have a mini sport button that the M's have but it's not adding any power, just makes you believe that you do because you feel differently.

With $300 you can get a brand-new intake that will increase your power by a little and you (as well as others) will be able to hear a big difference. K&N, aFe, Injen, etc.
Or replace the belts/pulleys and free up some lost power from having old ones, assuming they are factory still.

Just my 0.02.

I would have gotten the Shark months ago if I had a manual though.



Just to back to the post......
JKO

I've done the intake on other cars before. MAYBE a little bit of oomph at higher revs. NOWHERE near as noticeable as with the PB/SB. Plus 300$ will not get the intake AND an install.

To be clear.... Intake = some power.... PB = no power! but quicker throttle/ access to given power.

Drivability- I have no need to rev high or wow other with the sounds of my engine. I DO have a need to feel the improvement in quick acceleration with minimal effort. There's no "believe that you do" that was mentioned..... Everyone that has driven one with and without says the same thing. Jon has offered a test on his auto. You should try it you'll love your car even more. Then add the intake, even more!:)

K&n has some reputation for not so good results on our cars... Not worth it for nothing really more than aggressive sound for me.



Mine is a manual.
Shark not compliant with CA smog... May not be important to ores, but is to me. For many reasons.

And my PB was 260. New.

I hope this helps. TWM Said no problem on buy back..... So nothing really to loose by trying. You'll be glad you did.

[Pip]

Is the shark really not compliant with CA smog? I know for sure that the eurocharged tune is since I just went through CA smog last weekend on the 330i.

[wsmeyer]

Is the shark really not compliant with CA smog? I know for sure that the eurocharged tune is since I just went through CA smog last weekend on the 330i.

My car passed smog Sharked. It's not CARB certified but I'll bet that has more to do with the cost of certification than anything else.

[Pip]

Yea I could see it not being carb compliant, but the smog shop wouldn't know. I know there are some tunes to help bypass cel and other things that pop too many codes in the obdii to be compliant but that is a different animal.

[wsmeyer]

Yea I could see it not being carb compliant, but the smog shop wouldn't know. I know there are some tunes to help bypass cel and other things that pop too many codes in the obdii to be compliant but that is a different animal.

I don't believe they can CURRENTLY detect any of the tunes. The ability to uninstall the Shark myself was a deciding factor to me though. Who says they won't look for tunes in the future? And if they do these companies may vanish rather quickly. Then what are you going to do?

[PHZ]

maybe there's an issue with not wanting to contribute more than one has to to the already nasty air quality here in social?

And yes, the potential for "issues" with SMOG in the future is always there....

[wsmeyer]

maybe there's an issue with not wanting to contribute more than one has to to the already nasty air quality here in social?

And yes, the potential for "issues" with SMOG in the future is always there....

I can respect that but does a car that's Sharked or any other tune put out more smog?

I've passed smog now twice while Sharked so I know for certain that it is operating at least within the accepted range of a non tuned car.

[Hermes]

maybe there's an issue with not wanting to contribute more than one has to to the already nasty air quality here in social?

And yes, the potential for "issues" with SMOG in the future is always there....

I'm sorry, but what most people understand as the way the Air Resources Board supposedly works is incorrect. They are out to make money for the state by imposing rules that aren't necessarily the best for the environment. There are lobbyists that promote their agenda to the ARB to enact rules in the favor of manufacturers.

For example, I needed a new catalytic converter for my 320 when I bought it. I was not allowed to just buy any approved California cat, but the approved CA cat for my specific car. I could've bought one for a huge V8 truck that would surely be overkill and easily clean my exhaust much better than one for a 4cyl, but no... there is only one $200 cat allowed to be installed on my car while the more efficient (and still approved in the state, but not for my model) other cat is half the price

Don't even get me started on engine swap laws.

ARB are a bunch of "Not very smart people" and sometimes I hate the fact I live in this state, but I doubt I'm going anywhere anytime soon.

[Smolck]

I'm sorry, but what most people understand as the way the Air Resources Board supposedly works is incorrect. They are out to make money for the state by imposing rules that aren't necessarily the best for the environment. There are lobbyists that promote their agenda to the ARB to enact rules in the favor of manufacturers.

For example, I needed a new catalytic converter for my 320 when I bought it. I was not allowed to just buy any approved California cat, but the approved CA cat for my specific car. I could've bought one for a huge V8 truck that would surely be overkill and easily clean my exhaust much better than one for a 4cyl, but no... there is only one $200 cat allowed to be installed on my car while the more efficient (and still approved in the state, but not for my model) other cat is half the price

Don't even get me started on engine swap laws.

ARB are a bunch of "Not very smart people" and sometimes I hate the fact I live in this state, but I doubt I'm going anywhere anytime soon.


Not to mention the fact that the "global warming" debate isn't full of facts, but people with an agenda. An article just came out this week about leaked emails from so called "scientists" proving they fudged the numbers to try and show global warming.

The bottom line, whether you run a tune or not, headers or not, the polar ice region is still plenty cold. Besides, even if you do believe in global warming, the Chinese and other countries around the world are doing more harm than America ever could by herself.

[UdubBadger]

I'm not aware, as Eurocharged is the only one that says they do that (at least during my research) - and they were not around when I did mine. I imagine they can improve it (Seth would know the details). One thing about the SB is that it's adjustable, so even with a Eurocharged improvement, you could still add it for flexibility. But I get what you're saying, it would be nice if you didn't have to. Maybe try the Eurocharged first, and if you're happy w/it, forget the SB. Or, you could add it later as an option. BTW, I think they are under $200, and you could certainly find a used one for under that price.



Sorry I iz late to this party. Simply put the answer is YES. Active Autowerks actually hired us to help them do the same thing to their newer tunes. Part of why our AT tunes are so drastically better feeling over stock is because we control and modify the drivability of the car, not just add numbers to a dyno graph. You actually feel the difference in having the tune.

The only difference between a tune and SB is the control over the sensitivity. With the tune you'd need to upload different files everything to change it - though most people who enjoy spirited driving just leave it at full out open anyway so often times thats not an issue.


Goin' HAM mobile

[az3579]

Who really needs a 7k redline, though? I can't imagine it does much over the 6800 redline anyway.


This guy.
I frequent Lime Rock Park, my local track. After Big Bend and the esses comes a short straight called "no name straight". This straight is just long enough for the car to top out 3rd gear, however not short enough to allow you to stay in 3rd with stock software. With the Shark, I can keep it in 3rd and not have to waste time short shifting to 4th and then right back down to 3rd again. Short shifting to 4th and taking the turn and uphill is not an option because it is STEEP, and would completely defeat my car due to its lack of power.

In the end, keeping it in 3rd, despite bring well past the power band, still yields in more mph by the time I have to start braking than just shifting to 4th and downshifting again. That extra 200rpm is so worth it.

[Hermes]

^that is the one exception (track/autox) where I agree a higher redline is helpful.

[UdubBadger]

How about just for more cool high pitched engine noises?


Goin' HAM mobile

[az3579]

How about just for more cool high pitched engine noises?


Goin' HAM mobile

It sounds so good at 6500rpm... oh man!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Hermes]

M10 screaming at 7200 sounds amazing

[UdubBadger]

You haven't heard a symphony until you hear an s54 scream at 8200.
:D


Goin' HAM mobile

[Hermes]

You haven't heard a symphony until you hear an s54 scream at 8200.
:D


Goin' HAM mobile

I have heard that before and I agree it's great, but a M10 has a 6400rpm redline. When you modify it to run that much higher it sounds ridiculous

[Lanister]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cisvgJtNGEU

:D

[az3579]

You haven't heard a symphony until you hear an s54 scream at 8200.
:D


Goin' HAM mobile

A S85 at around 8k trumps both of your examples. Sorry. :p


I have heard that before and I agree it's great, but a M10 has a 6400rpm redline. When you modify it to run that much higher it sounds ridiculous

[UdubBadger]

Only with an eisenmann ;)


And to be fair I was trying to keep it in the I6 family.

Goin' HAM mobile

[Hermes]

If that's the requirement then you should hear a M88/3 at 8400

Edit: I meant M88/2... I get them mixed up sometimes

Edit2: wait until he gets to Hangar Straight, appx 1:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVkY8oA3RlE

[UdubBadger]

Well you gotta expect that from that car...


Goin' HAM mobile

[Avetiso]

If that's the requirement then you should hear a M88/3 at 8400

Edit: I meant M88/2... I get them mixed up sometimes

Edit2: wait until he gets to Hangar Straight, appx 1:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVkY8oA3RlE
:drool

How far can the M54 go?

[UdubBadger]

I had mine at 7300 a few times at the drag strip


Goin' HAM mobile

[Lanister]

If that's the requirement then you should hear a M88/3 at 8400

Edit: I meant M88/2... I get them mixed up sometimes

Edit2: wait until he gets to Hangar Straight, appx 1:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVkY8oA3RlE

That's just music.. but he sure fugged up the Foggy Esses

[Avetiso]

I had mine at 7300 a few times at the drag strip


Goin' HAM mobile
How far can you go safely for a daily driver? Let's say I get a tune w/ you guys, how far can I go? Besides lifters and oil pump, what else should I worry about?

[Hermes]

Well you gotta expect that from that car...


Goin' HAM mobile

Agreed. The problem with that engine is the curve plateau's after around 7000 then climbs again. If you keep it in the plateau then it causes a harmonic that grenade's the engine. Inexperienced drivers of that car are known for killing them. As long as you push through the plateau the engine is amazing, even more so when you consider it is nearly 40 year old technology

[az3579]

If that's the requirement then you should hear a M88/3 at 8400

Edit: I meant M88/2... I get them mixed up sometimes

Edit2: wait until he gets to Hangar Straight, appx 1:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVkY8oA3RlE

Either this guy isn't a very good driver OR the M1 isn't that easy to drive.
Him slipping the clutch to downshift is killing me. It almost bit him early in the video when the car's balance got upset when he didn't rev-match while trail braking.

I do say that sound is intoxicating, but it's a racecar and is consequently cheating to throw that into our mix of divine engine sounds. :p

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Hermes]

Same engine was available on street car, I just can't find a video of it. I have also heard that the M1 was not easy to drive. I blame Lambo for dropping out during development (but then again, the Countach wasn't that easy to drive and that was their car during the same time)

Interestingly, I found one video where it seems a team has outfitted a paddle shift trans to that car

Edit: the only different M1 engine was outfitted to the Group 5 car, turbocharging got it up to appx 900hp

[UdubBadger]

How far can you go safely for a daily driver? Let's say I get a tune w/ you guys, how far can I go? Besides lifters and oil pump, what else should I worry about?

Never had any issues. We raised the redline to 7400 I believe and don't have any reports of anything going wrong. Granted if you don't take care of your car it could intensify some issues but if it's well maintained and you're running a good power set up with and intake and some exhaust or better yet headers... 7400 isn't too bad a few times every now and then.


Funny think is my M rarely even sees 7000 these days. I can't easily find a stretch of road to get it up that high even in 2nd gear without plowing into the back of someone. Best is a highway on ramp.


Goin' HAM mobile

[stephenkirsh]

This guy.
I frequent Lime Rock Park, my local track. After Big Bend and the esses comes a short straight called "no name straight". This straight is just long enough for the car to top out 3rd gear, however not short enough to allow you to stay in 3rd with stock software. With the Shark, I can keep it in 3rd and not have to waste time short shifting to 4th and then right back down to 3rd again. Short shifting to 4th and taking the turn and uphill is not an option because it is STEEP, and would completely defeat my car due to its lack of power.

In the end, keeping it in 3rd, despite bring well past the power band, still yields in more mph by the time I have to start braking than just shifting to 4th and downshifting again. That extra 200rpm is so worth it.

Interesting and a good point. I'll have to see how often I bump into the redline at autocross.

In my 325 there was one set up we did where I just had to shift into 3rd before the corner. Probably wasn't helping my times. My ZHP with a shorter ratio diff might actually be comfortable in 3rd there, but I might get to that spot so fast I won't need 3rd.

Thanks for the insight.

[PHZ]

Just to get us back to topic......

After weeks with the Pedalbox... Results are still fantastic. Car pulls harder in all gears. I don't have to downshift as often. I drove with it off a good chunk of hue he day today... Felt sluggish. Turned it back on... Wow. I'm sold. And I was the BIGGEST sceptic.

Happy new year.