Way over torqued lugs

[Asiah119]

A bit of a continuation of a story.

I got new tires installed and noticed some really bad inside wear on my non-matching, shitty tire. So I had them do an alignment, everything was out of whack. They got 3 wheels into spec and LR the eccentric bolt, they said was just spinning. So that's an issue.

But also, right after, I went for a decent length drive, and the brakes were all acting like they were warped for maybe 50mi. Then the quieted down. I just got a torque wrench to put the lugs to spec and found that to get the rights off I had to use the torque wrench. To get them loose, I did some experimenting and it turned wo clicking at around 175-190lb/ft.

My questions are:

How accurate is my approach at seeing how tight the lugs were. And did they ruin my rotors by putting the lugs on that tight? If so, I'm unleashing hell on that shop and after they buy my new rotors, I'm never going back. And is it common for that eccentric nut to go bad? Should it just be a simple replace or is it indicative of a bigger issue in the suspension. No signs of an accident on that side. No sign of replaced parts.

[az3579]

I'm not sure if they could have caused damaged, but it would probably be best if you didn't use a torque wrench to try to loosen them (or did I misunderstand?).
If you were trying to tighten, and it still wouldn't click at 175-190 ft lbs... well, what did you have it set to? BMW spec is 88 ft/lbs +/- 8 lbs.

[Asiah119]

I ended up using the torque to loosen them because my breaker bar wasn't getting me anywhere, I was putting all of my weight on it, and the lug wouldn't budge.
The process was to set the torque wrench to 150 and try to loosen, it would click and I would go up 10 and try again; they broke loose around the 170-180 range.

I'm concerned about damage because before all of this, the rotors were all fine, and had, probably, less than 1500 miles on them. Now, the're acting like they're starting to warp and they've only seen regular city and highway driving. When I asked the mechanic that did my engine swap he said that uneven torquing of the lugs may have caused them to warp.

I'm just concerned that my new rotors are already on their way out before I've even gotten a chance to go to the track.

[Stewbie]

Had a Honda dealer tighten lug nut on my odyssey to around 200 ft lbs. Couldnt loosen them to do a tire swap. Actually broke a tool trying. Complained. They did the changeover for free but over torqued the winters they just put on. Of course I didn't discover this until trying to do the next changeover myself. Never went back.

[Asiah119]

Had a Honda dealer tighten lug nut on my odyssey to around 200 ft lbs. Couldnt loosen them to do a tire swap. Actually broke a tool trying. Complained. They did the changeover for free but over torqued the winters they just put on. Of course I didn't discover this until trying to do the next changeover myself. Never went back.
In the tire install that I just had done that I'm suspecting was the beginning to my brake problems they scored 8 spokes on my wheel and didn't tell me about it. I came back and they sent the wheel off to be repainted. Also, my wife's car was at the same shop for brakes, which are already starting to feel warped, and they also did an alignment when we got tires from them an the car feels like that wasnt done properly either, that or my wife has been hitting curbs and potholes, which is equally plausible.

[E_Rak]

Don't even get me started on over-torqued lugs... never again will I install wheels without a torque wrench. OP, to you point about the "warped" rotors. When my lugs were over-tightened they did seem a bit wobbly to me (rotors are not new), but when I finally wrenched off the old lugs and torqued them properly, I do believe they started to "feel" a bit straighter. Perhaps you need to get a few more rotations on them. Drive your baby!

[BavarianZHP]

Man, always use a torque wrench to tighten lugs, it's so important. If you catch a mechanic doing it by feel (breaker bar, air wrench - inform them to use a torque wrench). Also never use a torque wrench to loosen lugs, it'll damage the tool. Breaker bar is the right tool to use, especially with 200 lbs of torque! Using the torque wrench since the breaker bar wouldn't work is a horrible excuse, especially so when it's at 200ft-lbs. I'm glad you got them off safely though and good luck with the shop.

[330i ZHP]

breaker bar with a pipe on it to extend the length and thus the leverage/torque

[Asiah119]

when I finally wrenched off the old lugs and torqued them properly, I do believe they started to "feel" a bit straighter. Perhaps you need to get a few more rotations on them. Drive your baby!

I discovered this late enough in the day that I didn't get a chance to really get my brakes hot on a drive, I can go into the mountains and see what I can accomplish today though.


Also never use a torque wrench to loosen lugs, it'll damage the tool. Breaker bar is the right tool to use, especially with 200 lbs of torque! Using the torque wrench since the breaker bar wouldn't work is a horrible excuse, especially so when it's at 200ft-lbs. I'm glad you got them off safely though and good luck with the shop.
The breaker just wasn't getting the job done, and the second that the torque would click I backed off to try to prevent any damage.

Has anyone had experience with needing to replace that eccentric nut to adjust rear toe?

[ryankokesh]

I literally snapped my breaker bar trying to get the lugs off the cx7 after the dealer put the wheels back on. Granted it was from Harbor Freight, but still. (Got a proper craftsman bar and eventually got them off after I ate some Wheaties...)

I've read that over torquing could lead to brake issues. But I don't understand why. I know it's very dangerous in terms of lugs snapping, though. It distorts them to a point of failure.


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[Asiah119]

I've read that over torquing could lead to brake issues. But I don't understand why. I know it's very dangerous in terms of lugs snapping, though. It distorts them to a point of failure.

My mechanic that didn't do this told me that its uneven torquing, not just over torqueing. With over I believe that it doesn't give the rotor the room that it needs to expand as it heats up. When the lugs aren't torqued evenly, it compounds the problem because the rotor cant expand evenly. At least, that's what makes sense to me.

[330i ZHP]

Has anyone had experience with needing to replace that eccentric nut to adjust rear toe?

You mean camber? Toe is adjusted by loosening the three bolts holding the trailing arm

[Asiah119]

You mean camber? Toe is adjusted by loosening the three bolts holding the trailing arm

I'm increasingly convinced of how much I need to never go back to this shop.

Incoming wall of text.

The sheet that I got post alignment has as follows for the rear (I'll try to organize it as well as possible):
Camber Initial Spec: Max/Min Final
Left -1.5 -2.3/-1.8 -0.5
Right -2.2 -2.3/-1.8 -2.2

Toe
Left -0.10 0.10/0.20 0.05
Right .40 0.10/0.20 0.15


So my left side is all jacked up still. When I picked the car up, they only said that it wouldn't go into spec and cited the eccentric bolt on the lower control arm as turning but not effecting the wheel angle. They didn't offer anything on actually fixing it.

[330i ZHP]

They too lazy to adjust toe? Three bolts. Tap in spec. Tighten.

For camber. They have to turn the inner bolt not just the nut

I HATE LAZY techs

[Asiah119]

What I don't get is that they adjusted the Left camber, and the Right toe. It's not like they didnt know how. This is why I'm on the look out for a different shop.

Im getting close to just going to the dealership, I'll pay through the nose, but they'll at least, you know, do the job that I'm paying for.

[3ZHP]

I'm increasingly convinced of how much I need to never go back to this shop.

Incoming wall of text.

The sheet that I got post alignment has as follows for the rear (I'll try to organize it as well as possible):
Camber Initial Spec: Max/Min Final
Left -1.5 -2.3/-1.8 -0.5
Right -2.2 -2.3/-1.8 -2.2

Toe
Left -0.10 0.10/0.20 0.05
Right .40 0.10/0.20 0.15


So my left side is all jacked up still. When I picked the car up, they only said that it wouldn't go into spec and cited the eccentric bolt on the lower control arm as turning but not effecting the wheel angle. They didn't offer anything on actually fixing it.

There is no eccentric bolt on the lower control arm. Lived in a shop to long and why if I can't do it I take it to the dealer.


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[Asiah119]

There is no eccentric bolt on the lower control arm. Lived in a shop to long and why if I can't do it I take it to the dealer.


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I'm on my phone, so I can't link it, but realoem lists an eccentric on the lower control arm.

Edit: Here is the realoem diagram: Part number 10
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BD53&mospid=47713&btnr=33_0840&hg=33&fg=30

[3ZHP]

Oopppps, I thought you were talking front control arm, not rear. You may have worn trailing arm bushings, a very common problem with rear wheel alignment


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[Asiah119]

Well, I scheduled a visit with bmw for an alignment. At least I'll be able to tell them to get the values closer to equal. And they'll actually bother with looking into why, if it is the case, the camber and toe didn't get moved. I still haven't had a chance to really get the brakes hot and see if they get back into shape, I'll leave that rage for another day.