ZHP: "330is" or "///M330i"?

[Crickett]

So, here's a hypothetical for ya:

If BMW was into following logic & consistency with its branding (I'll wait for you to stop laughing . . . ), should they have uniquely badged our Performance Package E46 330s?

We've had discussions on http://tcholo.net/images/bmw/m.gifM badging before, & about BMW's upcoming "M Performance" line (e.g. the http://tcholo.net/images/bmw/m.gifM550d) & that got me thinking: is the Performance Package more analogous to an "is" upgrade, like the current 135i, or is it more like those upcoming "M-tuned" but not "M car" versions of their lineup?

My current opinion, FWIW, is that its much closer to an "is" package. And now I wonder what my ZHP would look like with a "330is" badge on it . . .

[Avetiso]

I went with M330i because most people think it's an M either way.

[BavarianZHP]

I'm gonna go with 330is - the "s" tells you it's a small step above a 330i and not an ///M by any means. Yeah, yeah I know there are ///M labels everywhere but still...

[Mike V]

A two-door ZHP could be a 330is. I don't recall any 4 door BMW with an 'is' badge, except for the X5 4.6is. E30 and E36 'is' cars are all coupes, but of course with the E36 the 'is' just means that it's a coupe.

[JupiterBMW]

Hmm, I think I'd be more inclined to say 330is. My reasons are below.

1. None of the ///M___i badged vehicles are coming to the US... ///M550i, ///MX5 50d, etc...

2. The is version of the 135 and 335 is basically an M-Sport vehicle with a slight bump in power. This is exactly like the ZHP. M-Sport touches all around, and the cams/DME give it a few more horsepower.


Granted, the ZHP package was just that, only a package, and not a completely separate model, but I still think it could've been badged as a 330is. Honestly, knowing that I like little custom touches, I'd be very inclined to rebadge my car as a 330is, but I wouldn't want to deal with the flamers.

[ryankokesh]

I agree with joop... Would have liked to see it come factory-badged as a 330is.


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[johnrando]

I voted "is", but I don't know enough about the "is" history to know if that would be technically accurate, but it SEEMS like it would have been the logical badging to me given the options.

[BRGcoopahS]

It would've definitely been an 'is", just like the e30 and e36

[Hermes]

or you could just confuse everybody and go with touring international injected (tii)

[JupiterBMW]

A two-door ZHP could be a 330is. I don't recall any 4 door BMW with an 'is' badge, except for the X5 4.6is. E30 and E36 'is' cars are all coupes, but of course with the E36 the 'is' just means that it's a coupe.

I wasn't sure about this, so I did some digging online and found that you are almost 100% correct. I always thought the 'is' designation was a sport suspension car versus a regular car (or the 'e' designation)... I wasn't correct in that, but, either way I was curious... I found out that there was a true 'is' badged 4 door car, an E30 320is. The following excerpt is from Wikipedia... "...For Portugal and Italy only, due to considerably higher VAT and vehicle tax for cars with engines exceeding 2000 cc, a special model was created: the 320is. This model was produced both in 2- and 4-door versions and was equipped with a 2.0 L (1990cc)..."

Interesting stuff.

[Crickett]

The is version of the 135 and 335 is basically an M-Sport vehicle with a slight bump in power. This is exactly like the ZHP. M-Sport touches all around, and the cams/DME give it a few more horsepower.

That's exactly why I think "is" would've made sense! They did it on the E30, E36, E9x; why no E46?


or you could just confuse everybody and go with touring international injected (tii)

:rofl Always wondered what that was supposed to stand for!

[mimalmo]

Given that the ZHP was sold in Europe and Canada with the ///M badge, I'd go with that over the "330is" designation.

[Mike V]

I voted "is", but I don't know enough about the "is" history to know if that would be technically accurate, but it SEEMS like it would have been the logical badging to me given the options.

E30 325is was a performance oriented model with sport steering wheel (similar to the M3), 3.73 limited slip diff (4.10 in the autos), BBS wheels, rear deck spoiler, full OBC, etc.

When the E36 came out, "is" no longer meant that it was a performance model. It simply meant it was two door and could be optioned out like a four door "i" model. E36 "is" is similar to what "Ci" means for an E46.

[Hermes]

Ci should never have been available on a 3er IMO, that letter was always saved for the larger coupes (6er/8er). Logically, a ZHP should be rebadged with is or debadged from the factory (like the E21 320is was).

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5013/5546712183_7bb469e328.jpg

As for the issue of 4dr's with is badges, the E28 535is was badged that way so it makes sense for a 4dr to have an is badge
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/3913/3141/22281570017_large.jpg

[ryankokesh]

Whoa, that's pretty neat that it came from the factory debadged. Kinda makes me want to floss mine off...

[webster]

"330ismafia.com" just doesn't have the same ring to it...

[E_Rak]

Should have been an is for sure, I'm not too keen on the ///Mxxxi naming system.

[az3579]

Joop,
That car actually had an M3 engine, an S14. Referring to the E30 320is

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[wertyu78]

The ZHP would need a LSD from the factory to carry the "is" badge IMO. BMW screwed us with an open diff...

[BavarianZHP]

:word

[mimalmo]

E46 M3 diff swap will fix that. :)

[Crickett]

The ZHP would need a LSD from the factory to carry the "is" badge IMO. BMW screwed us with an open diff...

Oooh, fair point. Ok, so all I need now is this (http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/51148122481/ES79381/) [P/N 51148122481 @ ECS] & a junk yard M3 LSD . . .

[mimalmo]

Well, there's more than just the diff that's needed but you're close. Diff, subframe, carrier & driveshaft are the main parts needed.

[webster]

the current 135is and 335is have open diffs...

[toddness]

LSD was an option on the 1991 318is.

[zhpnsnv]

Voted for 330is. The gratuitous M crap didn't start until later.

[zhpnsnv]

the current 135is and 335is have open diffs...

Right. It's the thing BMW draws the line at when differentiating m cars from non-m. It doesn't stop the m135i from being every bit as quick as the 1m.

[Hermes]

Oooh, fair point. Ok, so all I need now is this (http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/51148122481/ES79381/) [P/N 51148122481 @ ECS] & a junk yard M3 LSD . . .

that actually is too big... I ordered a ti badge that I was gonna turn into a tii badge but it just doesn't fit right. Still working on rebadging my car ;)


Voted for 330is. The gratuitous M crap didn't start until later.

technically the ///Mxxxx started first with the E12 ///M535i, but that's another story...

edit: CSL and CSi did come before is... puzzle me that.

[das boots]

So...if you dabble on rebadging, does anybody have information on where to purchase the 330is badge? Factory, of course.

[Crickett]

So...if you dabble on rebadging, does anybody have information on where to purchase the 330is badge? Factory, of course.

"330i" emblem: BMW P/N 51147000494
"is" emblem: BMW P/N 51148122481

:roundel

[das boots]

If the '330i' left as is and adding the 'is', there would not be enough space. The whole '330i' badge has to be lifted and adjust to within specs for the '330is' to fit.

[terraphantm]

I've always thought of the 335is as the ZHP of 335s, so I think 330is would be appropriate. I wouldn't consider it poseur

Also, I wouldn't use the E36 is badge. I think using the "is" from the 335is badge would fit the font and styling the best (E36 letters look a bit flatter)

[Daddyoh]

"330ismafia.com" just doesn't have the same ring to it...
This is mostly my take on this subject. I'm thinking we would have a ZSP if we see 'is'.
We are all Motorsport fans, and I am proud to have this badge on our cars. We don't really kid ourselves about having an ///M car, but we do have performance upgrades as compared to the old 'is' cars that had a sport suspension and sport seats.
Maybe we are transitional; I know we are special!
(I don't see the 's' in 'is' as meaning "special", ha.)
So I'm good with the obvious (to us) trim differences of our cars, love the "HP" and really dig the ///M badges, simply because BMW put them on there.
I voted "got it right". I guess that's all I have to say about that......

[BCAN]

A little off topic, but I would not go near an M3 diff for my car. Besides the extensive work it takes to actually make a standard E46 able to use an M3 diff, you're then stuck with a viscous diff that's prone to failure. Why not just buy an aftermarket mechanical locking diff and save yourself the trouble?

[wertyu78]

A little off topic, but I would not go near an M3 diff for my car. Besides the extensive work it takes to actually make a standard E46 able to use an M3 diff, you're then stuck with a viscous diff that's prone to failure. Why not just buy an aftermarket mechanical locking diff and save yourself the trouble?

That's why I'm buying a Kaaz 1.5 way next month.

[BCAN]

That's why I'm buying a Kaaz 1.5 way next month.

That's the idea. A new diff will be my first real mod besides the exhaust work I've already done. I just need to do the VANOS and cooling system before I start modding.

[Crickett]

A little off topic, but I would not go near an M3 diff for my car. Besides the extensive work it takes to actually make a standard E46 able to use an M3 diff, you're then stuck with a viscous diff that's prone to failure. Why not just buy an aftermarket mechanical locking diff and save yourself the trouble?

I'd never heard that the M3's LSD was particularly failure prone . . . I'd go with a used M3 diff (& subframe & axles, etc.) just b/c it's far more affordable (I've seen / heard < $1000) than other aftermarket diffs (>$2000). But that's me.

[Mike V]

I'd never heard that the M3's LSD was particularly failure prone . . . I'd go with a used M3 diff (& subframe & axles, etc.) just b/c it's far more affordable (I've seen / heard < $1000) than other aftermarket diffs (>$2000). But that's me.

My thoughts exactly. Not sure where the idea comes from that an M3 diff is prone to failure.

[bullfrogs_M3]

I have a 06 E46 M3 Diff with 60K miles on it sitting in my garage for the last two years. Its up for grabs now if anyone wants it. I picked up a Hiop LSD brand new locally and now have no need for an M3 swap conversion.

Someone wants it? Just pay shipping costs and it's yours!




Handwritten on my Moleskin notepad

[Crickett]

I have a 06 E46 M3 Diff with 60K miles on it sitting in my garage for the last two years. Its up for grabs now if anyone wants it. I picked up a Hiop LSD brand new locally and now have no need for an M3 swap conversion.

Someone wants it? Just pay shipping costs and it's yours!




Handwritten on my Moleskin notepad

:jawdrop
Dibs! (Pending wife approval . . . :shifty Might even be able to drive over for a pick-up.)

[Avetiso]

I have a 06 E46 M3 Diff with 60K miles on it sitting in my garage for the last two years. Its up for grabs now if anyone wants it. I picked up a Hiop LSD brand new locally and now have no need for an M3 swap conversion.

Someone wants it? Just pay shipping costs and it's yours!




Handwritten on my Moleskin notepad
Heart of gold, right there. Crickett, you were in the right place at the right time. :thumbsup

[bullfrogs_M3]

Forgot to mention, yes, it is just the diff and diff alone. No other external components or anything.

This should be everything you need here, if you do the "minimal" swap, then you will only need driveshaft, left and right half-shafts, carrier and sway bar. This was the route, i was going to take. When I sourced out just these parts, I was looking at about $750 (carrier, halfshafts, sway bar) - $1000 (everything including driveshaft). So just be prepared, its a project for sure!

Here is an image of what you need
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a335/wrecklessfool/CIMG6471.jpg

Sorry to derail the original thread :(

[JupiterBMW]

Well, if his wife doesn't allow, I'll take 2nd dibs! :)

[Crickett]

Finally got the wife to see what an amazing opportunity this is & will be having bullfrogs_M3 send it my way! :roundel

[Mike V]

...

As for the issue of 4dr's with is badges, the E28 535is was badged that way so it makes sense for a 4dr to have an is badge

...[/IMG]

Ah, excellent point. Therefore, I approve of the 330is name for all ZHPs. :)

I forgot about the E28 535is, and I even test drove one about 7 years ago.