Wading through AT Fluid is hazardous to your health

[SaltyNC]

Wading through ATF forum posts and doing research is mind-numbing. I think I finally have arrived at some answers, but I wanted to run it past you guys with AT transmissions.

I looked under my son's car, and I said, oh, you have a blue label, so it's Esso 71141 LT. Well, no. It turns out the label is more of a turquoise color, and there was a part number on it, and I then realized this bluish colored label is actually the green label with part number 83220024359. So, that means I need the Texaco ETL 8072B fluid. Of course, that isn't made any more, but it turns out BMW now recommends replacing that fluid with their latest Dexron VI oil, which happens to be made by Petrol Canada. Since Dexron VI is so stringent, any Dexron VI should be fine.

With that knowledge, I go to some of the more common parts sites we all use, and they all have AT kits using Redline D4. Knowing that Redline also makes a D6 for Dexron VI replacement, I wondered why they recommended D4. Well, D4 would be more similar to what was originally in the transmission, but everyone says VI is better than III, and BMW is now using Dexron VI to replace Texaco 8072B, so why not just pick up a couple of gallons of AC Delco Dexron VI -- cause it's made by Petrol Canada, too. And most everyone says if the company is reputable, Dexron VI is Dexron VI.

So, I look up AC Delco Dexron VI, and wouldn't you know it, there are two part numbers. One is GM Dexron and the other is AC Delco Dexron, so I'm thinking hmmm, maybe the GM product is a little better, and it costs more. Nope. The new part number is 10-9395 for AC Delco and for GM Dexron. It's the same. The 10-9030 has been superseded. It may be nothing more than a container shape change. And we must all remember the rule, Dexron VI is Dexron VI.

So, after that round the world trip of information, I finally decide, I'm going to do three fluid changes on my GM auto trans with AC Delco Dexron VI Part number 10-9395. It's $29 a gallon with free shipping from Amazon Prime. Then I saw where Advanced Auto has Castrol Dexron VI on sale for $4.99 a quart with free shipping ($50+ order). WOW! $20 a gallon!! Now I'm back to thinking is Dexron VI really Dexron VI no matter who makes it? Do I go with Redline D4, do I go with AC Delco Dexron VI which is really the same as BMW Dexron VI, or do I go with Castrol Dexron VI for $20 a gallon?

I'm thinking I'm probably going to go with AC Delco since it is the same Petrol Canada Dexron VI as BMW fluid.

Thoughts? Prayers? ;)

Salty

[Vas]

I been a firm believer of the Redline ATF. Been using it in the Step and Manual Trans as well as power steering.

Unless cost is a concern for you?

[ZHPizza]

I been a firm believer of the Redline ATF. Been using it in the Step and Manual Trans as well as power steering.

Unless cost is a concern for you?

+1 RL D4 ATF FTW

https://www.redlineoil.com/bmw-what-red-line-products-do-i-need

[ELCID86]

I been a firm believer of the Redline ATF. Been using it in the Step and Manual Trans as well as power steering.

Unless cost is a concern for you?

Redline.

[Newjack]

Gonna echo Shawn, Vas and ZHPizza. Go with Redline. I did a ton of research into what I should have put into my manual gearbox and found the OE Pentosin fluid. I switched to Redline last change and it works great. Maybe even better, I can't really tell. Lots of great reviews and I think a few members have even sent samples to blackstone labs and they came back great.

Stay far far away from anything Royal Purple and avoid giving Advance Auto any of your money. They don't deserve it.

[ELCID86]

^ I actually got Car Quest (Advance Auto) to order the Redline I needed.

[SaltyNC]

Stay far far away from anything Royal Purple

Do you say that because it doesn't work well in the E46 transmissions? The reason I ask is that RP Synchromax is considered one of the smoothest shifting transmissions fluids for the Z4M, and many people use it with great results. I have Redline D4 in my Z4M's manual trans, but it does seem to get a bit notchy after 20K miles. Of course, here I'm talking about a GM auto transmission, so very much apples and oranges.

So, based on the comments, it sounds like you all think I should go with Dexron VI, huh? ;) I'm going to need a lot of Redline D4 to do what I want to do and get as much of the old oil out as possible. Maybe I can find it some place cheaper by the gallon.

Thanks for the input.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Do you guys also use D4 in your power steering?

And what's your thought on the diff? I have two bottles of Redline 75W90 inbound. Are you running 75W90?

Salty

[Vas]

Do you guys also use D4 in your power steering?

And what's your thought on the diff? I have two bottles of Redline 75W90 inbound. Are you running 75W90?

SaltyRedline all the fluids

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[Newjack]

Redline all the fluids

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Do it



Do you say that because it doesn't work well in the E46 transmissions? The reason I ask is that RP Synchromax is considered one of the smoothest shifting transmissions fluids for the Z4M, and many people use it with great results. I have Redline D4 in my Z4M's manual trans, but it does seem to get a bit notchy after 20K miles. Of course, here I'm talking about a GM auto transmission, so very much apples and oranges.

So, based on the comments, it sounds like you all think I should go with Dexron VI, huh? ;) I'm going to need a lot of Redline D4 to do what I want to do and get as much of the old oil out as possible. Maybe I can find it some place cheaper by the gallon.

Thanks for the input.

Salty


Kayger12 ran the Royal Purple in his differential and did a blackstone report shortly after and the report was really bad. He swapped fluids immediately after. The photos from the thread are taken down, but if you ask him he might be able to find them again.

Here's a link to his thread (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?14454-It-s-Official-Red-Line-over-Royal-Purple-for-the-Rear-Differential)

[SaltyNC]

Thanks for the link, Newjack.

Salty

[ZHPizza]

Red Line 75W90 GL-5 is also the consensus for the diff

[SaltyNC]

Thanks, Nate. I got that one right, then. :)

Salty

[holyc0w]

I've got Amsoil 75w90 in the diff. Hope that one is a bit better than the RP. :eek

[ZHPizza]

Also why are you looking to flush the transmission? I haven't really looked into it, but I thought you could just drain it, drop the pan, clean the debris off the magnets, and replace the pan with a new gasket. Magnets should pick up any wear material in the oil, no?

[danewilson77]

Redline all the fluids

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[johnrando]

Lots of good info here. Thanks for posting your research.

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[SaltyNC]

Also why are you looking to flush the transmission? I haven't really looked into it, but I thought you could just drain it, drop the pan, clean the debris off the magnets, and replace the pan with a new gasket. Magnets should pick up any wear material in the oil, no?

This ZHP has the A5S390R automatic transmission from GM. I'm not looking to do a true "flush" in the sense of putting in fluid under pressure with a machine. What I'm trying to achieve is to remove as much of the old Texaco "lifetime" fluid as possible from the GM trans and torque converter. The plan is to drain, drop the pan, pull the filter, and drain as much oil out as possible. Then, button it back up and refill and go through the whole procedure of starting the car, running through the gears, and topping it off, but then I'm going to repeat that process two more times (I may actually drop the car and drive for awhile to thoroughly cycle the fluid), and on the last time, I'll be replacing the AT filter, gasket, and bolts with new ones. The idea is that the old fluid is going to remain in some areas, so multiple fill and drain cycles will get as much of the old Texaco ATF fluid out as possible. I'll also be cleaning the magnet as part of this procedure.

This AT is up there with 157K miles, now, and I have thoroughly researched it. Literally days of research. Changing the fluid doesn't seem to be an issue even with older transmissions. In fact, I would say that probably improper drain and fill or leaving behind the rubber sealing ring, or the transmission was already dying are more likely causes of when the transmissions fail after a fluid swap. Probably running AT fluid to 157K causes some wear problems. I don't know if it has ever been changed, but I highly doubt it. There is even one guy that tried a number of different ATF fluids before eventually running Pentosin in his GM AT trans. Now, that sounded crazy to me, but the thing was, every fluid he tried worked and didn't kill his AT. He found Pentosin worked best for his transmission, but none killed the transmission. And while researching, I found an article in Hot Rod that talked about a secret tool race teams had used for years, and that was running Ford transmission fluid in their older GM transmissions. Go figure.

The AT is running OK right now. I do feel a little vibration under load. That could be a lot of things: AT, diff, axle, etc. The plan is to start with fluid swaps in the AT and differential, because that needs to be done regardless, and I'll see how it performs after that.

So, back to the fluid. Clearly Redline D4 is fine transmission oil. I use it in my Z4M manual transmission (they only came with manuals). It was so much smoother than stock fluid. And I know it has rightfully earned its place as a good transmission fluid for BMWs. But, most recommending D4 have manual transmissions, and not a GM auto transmission. Has anyone experienced any problems using Dexron VI in a GM Auto trans?


All that to say, BMW now recommends Dexron VI as a direct replacement for the Texaco ATF fluid that was originally in the transmission. Cadillacs used the same transmission, and they are recommended to use Dexron VI. Dexron VI is thinner, but there are many people posting that have switched to Dexron VI with good results. So, it's hard to say here. I think Redline D4 is close to the original oil, which was basically better performing Dexron III. But, I think Dexron VI will probably run fine without issue if nearly all of the old oil is removed, the correct fill procedure is used, and the transmission wasn't already damaged. There are many positive posts on E46fanatic, X3 forums, Cadillac forums about Dexron VI working great. I think if this GM transmission was in a GM car, no one would even think twice about swapping the fluid with Dexron VI. If anyone has a first hand bad experience with Dexron VI, I'd love to hear about it.

But as everyone rightfully mentions, I'm confident D4 will work great and be as close to the original oil as possible.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

One other thing I forgot to mention regarding why some people choose Dexron III or equivalents VS Dexron VI for their GM auto transmissions is that Dexron III and D4 are closer to the viscosity of the original Texaco fluid, but the Texaco fluid likely breaks down over time, as did Dexron III fluids from that time period. So, the thinner viscosity of Dexron VI probably matches or even exceeds the fluid that is currently in older GM auto transmissions, and one of the positive aspects of Dexron VI is that while it is thinner, it does not lose viscosity over time the way Dexron III did. The one thing we don't know is exactly what was in Texaco's product, but it was likely Dexron III-based with an additive, and likely closes matches Dexron III (H), but that's 100% speculation on my part.

Salty

[Dave1027]

Use these in the AT and in the diff. You can thank me later.
3186131862

[d-rod]

Use these in the AT and in the diff. You can thank me later.
3186131862
I’ve been reading up on this subject as the OP did and have come to the conclusion of using redline fluid. Then I saw this post with Valvoline atf as a recommendation. I did read somewhere else that it has some additives that are beneficial? Does anyone have more info on this?



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[ELCID86]

Redline FTW.

[John in VA]

Redline FTW.
Which product? I used their D4 ATF in the 5-speed 2002 325xi tranny.

[Dave1027]

I’ve been reading up on this subject as the OP did and have come to the conclusion of using redline fluid. Then I saw this post with Valvoline atf as a recommendation. I did read somewhere else that it has some additives that are beneficial? Does anyone have more info on this?


I don't know about additives but I can tell you from experience that of the fluids I have tried Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle. Works the best. I believe it's because it hits viscosity sweet spot that the GM transmission loves.

I have not tried Redline D4 fluid because a prominent forum member reported a slipping issue with it. Below are the fluids I have tried and their results.

Valvoline Maxlife - Morning slipping
Valvoline Dexron VI - Morning slipping
Mobil 1 ATF - worked well but cost more, had to order in.
Pentosin ATF1 - worked OK but less MPG, highest viscosity made for a higher traction feel through the transmission.
Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle - Feels like Mobil1 ATF but costs less. Slightly better MPG than M1 and easier to obtain

[d-rod]

I don't know about additives but I can tell you from experience that of the fluids I have tried Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle. Works the best. I believe it's because it hits viscosity sweet spot that the GM transmission loves.

I have not tried Redline D4 fluid because a prominent forum member reported a slipping issue with it. Below are the fluids I have tried and their results.

Valvoline Maxlife - Morning slipping
Valvoline Dexron VI - Morning slipping
Mobil 1 ATF - worked well but cost more, had to order in.
Pentosin ATF1 - worked OK but less MPG, highest viscosity made for a higher traction feel through the transmission.
Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle - Feels like Mobil1 ATF but costs less. Slightly better MPG than M1 and easier to obtain


I’m waiting on my filter kit to arrive from FCPeuro, but haven’t decided on which fluid to try. I like that this Valvoline fluid is readily available and cheap as I plan to do multiple drain and refills.

Dave, how long has it been since you put this fluid in your trans? And any issues afterwards?


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[Dave1027]

I’m waiting on my filter kit to arrive from FCPeuro, but haven’t decided on which fluid to try. I like that this Valvoline fluid is readily available and cheap as I plan to do multiple drain and refills.

Dave, how long has it been since you put this fluid in your trans? And any issues afterwards?


I've been running Valvoline IMV atf for about 16 months. No issues at all. Runs smooth, shifts perfectly and good MPG. I'm averaging 25 mpg on 50/50 driving.

[d-rod]

I've been running Valvoline IMV atf for about 16 months. No issues at all. Runs smooth, shifts perfectly and good MPG. I'm averaging 25 mpg on 50/50 driving.

Awesome, this sounds great.

Has anyone else used this fluid in their trans ?


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