Car pulls to the right (passenger side)

[PirateZHP]

I bought new tires all around (Conti DSW), and I got an alignment. All the numbers were set where they needed to be. I don't have the alignment sheet, but it was done right. But, the car pulls to the right. To go along with that, the steering feels much more responsive if a steer to the left vs the right.

I have installed sway bars front and rear, and new (adjustable) front endlinks. I don't know if either of those would have done it, BUT I did not feel it pull before I got the tires and alignment.

Any thoughts?

[fredo]

Did you take it for alignment to an Indy or Firestone (or similar place) ? I hear the settings for a regular 330 and a 330 ZHP are different. For sure, the Indy knows about it.

[Vas]

Tire pressure is even?

[3ZHP]

Does it pull on flat surfaces like a parking lot? The crown of the road can cause a slight pull. The things you did should not create a pull however; defective tires can cause a pull or the alignment caster can influence a pull. Have someone follow you and check to we if the car is going straight down the road and not ( dog tracking=/ & not | ). You can also try flipping the front tires Crome side to side and see if the pull follows the tire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[PirateZHP]

Did you take it for alignment to an Indy or Firestone (or similar place) ? I hear the settings for a regular 330 and a 330 ZHP are different. For sure, the Indy knows about it.

I got it done at an Indy, and verified they had the right setting with someone's alignment from the family.


Tire pressure is even?

Yessir... first place I checked


Does it pull on flat surfaces like a parking lot? The crown of the road can cause a slight pull. The things you did should not create a pull however; defective tires can cause a pull or the alignment caster can influence a pull. Have someone follow you and check to we if the car is going straight down the road and not ( dog tracking=/ & not | ). You can also try flipping the front tires Crome side to side and see if the pull follows the tire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

This pulls more than the crown of the road. I haven't tried in a parking lot, but both the HWY and town roads.

Thanks for the thoughts, boys. I am going to call the shop and have them look at it again. It's going to piss me off...

[LivesNearCostco]

My car also pulls slightly to the right. Definitely more so on crowned roads, which are most of the roads. And I think more so when I go to very negative (-3.0 instead of -2.0 degrees) camber up front for track/AutoX. Here's what I think can cause this.

Uneven tire tread, though unlikely with new tires. My old Saturn once had this once tires got worn and rotating the tires around eliminated it, then it came back when I rotated the tires again! Later getting new tires eliminated it for good.
Wide front tires -- the wider ones are more likely to follow road crown or those grooves in concrete freeways. Are your fronts wider than 225?
Uneven caster. I think the car pulls to the side with less caster. My car has uneven caster, which I can somewhat compensate for with the camber plates.
Road crown -- Most US roads are crowned to drain water off and make you pull to the right. Can try to test by finding a road that is sloped entirely to the left but not turning left. Or take car to Japan/Australia/UK for a month and test drive on their roads.
More negative camber or toe-out -- I have heard that more negative front camber or more toe-out (less toe-in) causes the tires to follow the road more. But this should not affect you on a flat (non-crowned) road.

[jsfbmw]

This is very interesting because I experienced a similar thing. Except after I got 4 new Michelin PSS and an alignment, the car would drift to the right and steering felt easier to turn to the right than to the left. A little different than your symptoms.

I did a "road crown test" and the car pulled correctly right or left depending on the crown. Not that I have a solution for you, but with cold weather here, I switched to snow tires that are narrower and have a higher profile, and the pulling is significantly reduced - almost not noticeable. So maybe it's your new tires that are making the car more sensitive.

I think 3ZHPGUY's suggestion of swapping fronts is a good test. Do it before you accumulate many miles. Note that if the DSW tires are directional, you will have to dismount and re-mount the tires.

[PirateZHP]

Thanks guys. The indy wanted me to bring the car in. So, it's in this afternoon and I should have some sort of answer. It could be a bad tire or it could be the alignment needs to be redone. In any case, I hope they figure it out and get it right. I'll update you all what they "find".

With fingers touching the screen...

[ELCID86]

Good luck. Did you get a results print out?


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1).

[LivesNearCostco]

As jsfbmw said, there is a way to test the road crown issue without looking for that rare stretch of straight road that is completely flat or slanted only to one side instead of crowned. Find a straight section of crowned road that has no traffic and clear line of sight. Drive on the middle of the center line and car should go straight (or not pull as much to the right). Drive on the left side and car should pull to the left because of the crown on the other side of the road.

This is illegal on public roads and potentially very dangerous if you have oncoming traffic, so if you want to try this pick your road and time carefully.

[Avetiso]

Disappointing. The person who aligns should test drive it. Mine ALWAYS tests it and usually makes secondary or tertiary adjustments.

[PirateZHP]

Basic answer was that I'm imagining things, and that any pull to the right is just because of the road itself. They swapped left to right and right to left on the front tires, rechecked the alignment, and looked at a few other things. They mentioned something about the sway bar and they thought it could have bearing on it, but they didn't check too much into that. I'll look at it this weekend and see if anything looks off.

With fingers touching the screen...

[PirateZHP]

As another note, I'm not sure how the sway bar would affect the alignment...

With fingers touching the screen...

[LivesNearCostco]

They didn't offer to test drive your car in Japan, Australia, or England? What about New Zealand? :ronald

Swaybar shouldn't affect alignment but if it's preloaded then it's pushing up strut on one side while pulling down strut on the other, meaning one side would be slightly lower and have slightly different camber than the other even while driving straight ahead. Don't know if that would make it pull to one side. Can test by removing one swaybar link for a while and driving around that way.

[PirateZHP]

Well, the new hotchkis endlinks are adjustable, so there could be a chance that one of them is "smaller" than the other. I guess I could start there.

With fingers touching the screen...

[LivesNearCostco]

My Hotchkis bar didn't come with end links (boo hoo). I thought only the rear bar included them, though maybe if I'd bought the whole set it would have included adjustable links front and rear. Anyhoo, I present Ground Control's instructions for removing front swaybar preload. It's technically for an E36 with the GC swaybar and GC links, but I used this method for my ZHP with Hotchkis front bar (and GC links), except I forgot to put driver's equivalent weight in the driver's seat.
http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/category.php/CA=292

[PirateZHP]

My Hotchkis bar didn't come with end links (boo hoo). I thought only the rear bar included them, though maybe if I'd bought the whole set it would have included adjustable links front and rear. Anyhoo, I present Ground Control's instructions for removing front swaybar preload. It's technically for an E36 with the GC swaybar and GC links, but I used this method for my ZHP with Hotchkis front bar (and GC links), except I forgot to put driver's equivalent weight in the driver's seat.
http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/category.php/CA=292

I basically did this upon install... but then I got the new endlinks a little later and installed them. But, the suspension was still fully flexed when I attached them. Maybe I will try again... nothing like doing work over again.

With fingers touching the screen...

[M0nk3y]

If there is pre-load on the sway bar, it wouldn't impact pulling left/right.

If anything it would reduce responsiveness with the preload.

[PirateZHP]

If there is pre-load on the sway bar, it wouldn't impact pulling left/right.

If anything it would reduce responsiveness with the preload.

So if it feels more responsive to turn left, and the car is drifting right, maybe I have some preload on the right side?

With fingers touching the screen...

[LivesNearCostco]

Maybe right-drift is just road crown, and more responsiveness to turn left is preload on the swaybar? Just speculating.

[PirateZHP]

Maybe right-drift is just road crown, and more responsiveness to turn left is preload on the swaybar? Just speculating.

Yeah. I guess I should put it in the air this weekend just to check the preload. Here's to hoping I have some time!

With fingers touching the screen...

[QC_ZHP]

Hope to see you get this figured out. I have to ask though, why did you have the suspension fully flexed on the sway bar install?

[PirateZHP]

Well, it was more for the endlinks...

[LivesNearCostco]

I think the car needs to be on the ground to truly check preload. Yes you can check it in the air with both sides at full droop, but if they compress different amounts when on the ground for whatever reason (uneven left-right weights, slightly different spring heights, different coilover ride height settings, etc.) then no preload in air does not guarantee no preload on ground. Of course with stock links, it doesn't matter because they're not adjustable!


Yeah. I guess I should put it in the air this weekend just to check the preload. Here's to hoping I have some time!

[PirateZHP]

Hmm... good thought... the problem is getting to the endlinks while the car is on the ground.

[LivesNearCostco]

The Ground Control instructions I posted earlier (via a link) explain how to do that. Assuming you're right-handed, you lock down right (passenger) end link, then with car on ground adjust left (driver) end-link length by feel, adjusting to eliminate preload pressure, not to make them the same length. Then you either turn wheel to right or raise front again to tighten jam nuts on the left link.

[PirateZHP]

I'll re-read it. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention and comprehend what I was supposed to... I have always been better at math than reading...

With fingers touching the screen...

[M0nk3y]

Disconnect one endlink to eliminate all pre-load (or potential preload we are thinking) and take it for a drive.

If it still drifts, we have a deeper issue at hand.

[PirateZHP]

So I can drive without endlinks... cool... didn't know. I'll see what I can do tomorrow. I have the five year old all day.

With fingers touching the screen...

[M0nk3y]

So I can drive without endlinks... cool... didn't know. I'll see what I can do tomorrow. I have the five year old all day.

With fingers touching the screen...

Disconnecting an endlink and just leaving it hanging to drive up/down the street isn't going to do anything.

Would I leave it long-term...nope.

[PirateZHP]

I just re-read the instructions Livesnearcostco posted... the only thing I'm unsure of is what I'm feeling when turning the bar. It says you will feel the preload. I don't know what that is.

From what I read, I should disconnect the driver's side endlink from the sway bar, then let the car roll and/or drive it a bit, then go to reconnect it. At that point, I should be able to feel when I am adding to the preload. Am I reading all of this correctly?

With fingers touching the screen...

[danewilson77]

I think I drove without mine for about a week, after failure. I didn't take corners aggressively like this.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02242.jpg (http://s1015.photobucket.com/user/nicee46/media/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02242.jpg.html)

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[PirateZHP]

Just got done reading some other forums... I'm fairly certain I have some preload. When I put the adjustable endlinks on the car, they were a bit shorter. That, in itself, would cause preload, correct? Also, I think both were done while the car was in the air. So, I'll need to address that.

With fingers touching the screen...

[M0nk3y]

I just re-read the instructions Livesnearcostco posted... the only thing I'm unsure of is what I'm feeling when turning the bar. It says you will feel the preload. I don't know what that is.

From what I read, I should disconnect the driver's side endlink from the sway bar, then let the car roll and/or drive it a bit, then go to reconnect it. At that point, I should be able to feel when I am adding to the preload. Am I reading all of this correctly?

With fingers touching the screen...

The sway bar is essentially a torque bar. When you have pre-load on the bar...it is torquing...

So, when you think about it, when you don't have pre-load theoretically you should be able to move the bar within the joint.


Just got done reading some other forums... I'm fairly certain I have some preload. When I put the adjustable endlinks on the car, they were a bit shorter. That, in itself, would cause preload, correct? Also, I think both were done while the car was in the air. So, I'll need to address that.

With fingers touching the screen...

If the car was not lowered from before installation and after installation of the endlinks, and no other variables were changed except shorter endlinks...then yes, you would add preload.

[QC_ZHP]

I put jackstands underneath the control arms and let the car down to put my swaybars in, there was no way I could do it with the car on the ground. I'm not sure if this is a good way to do it, but I have had no problems so far.

[LivesNearCostco]

Stop touching the screen with your fingers! Just kidding....

Doesn't matter how you install the swaybar. You pretty much have to raise up the front or the entire car to install the swaybar.

Preload is what M0nk3y said, if the swaybar has tension (which turns into torque) on it even when the car is sitting level with the front wheels straight. It can happen if bar ends don't sit at exactly same height, if front weight is not evenly balanced left/right, if car frame or subframe is uneven, if end-links are not same length, if height adjusters (on coilovers) are not at same height, one strut tower mushroomed but other is not, etc.

The adjustment method I listed assumes that you have adjustable end links that can be adjusted while connected to both swaybar and strut. That means on each end link, one end has standard thread while other end has left-hand thread. So with both ends connected, turning the center section either makes the end link shorter or longer. You turn it back and forth, adding preload in different directions and try to get it so there's no pressure up or down, thus no preload. Then you turn the steering wheel to the right (assuming adjusting the left front link) so you can tighten the jam nuts with wrenches. If you are left handed, you can fix the length of the left link then adjust out the preload on the right link by reaching behind the right front tire with your left hand.

If one end of the link is disconnected, then your swaybar has zero preload because the struts will move completely independently.


Just got done reading some other forums... I'm fairly certain I have some preload. When I put the adjustable endlinks on the car, they were a bit shorter. That, in itself, would cause preload, correct? Also, I think both were done while the car was in the air. So, I'll need to address that.

[PirateZHP]

Thanks, that's basically what I got through my reading. I'm going to see if I can mess with it at all today. From what I remember, the adjustable end links were pretty hard to turn/adjust, so I am unsure if I will be able to reach back and turn it that easily. We'll see!

With fingers touching the screen...

[jsfbmw]

OP, it's been a while and I was wondering if you tracked down any more info on the steering behavior you reported? In another month or so it will be summer tire time and I hope I can leverage what you found out to figure out the steering behavior on my car (see prior post). Thanks.

[PirateZHP]

OP, it's been a while and I was wondering if you tracked down any more info on the steering behavior you reported? In another month or so it will be summer tire time and I hope I can leverage what you found out to figure out the steering behavior on my car (see prior post). Thanks.

I pulled the sway bars off and reinstalled them and the endlinks using the link that LivesNearCostco provided about preload. I rechecked the air pressure. Since then, everything has been fine. I don't know if I had done something while installing the sway/endlinks the first time, but it is smooth now. Good luck.